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Author Topic: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder  (Read 37254 times)

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Offline skyhawk

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Re: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2020, 05:03:45 PM »
Hello all!  This is my first post so I would like to say hello, and also note that this thread is still very helpful even seven years on!

I found this thread and this forum using Google to find a remedy for the bolt problem with a Taylor's conversion cylinder. Since Photobucket has low level formatted a lot of pictures out of existence, I thought it may be helpful to refresh this thread with new pics of the modification.

My Pietta 1858 Sheriff was purchased new at Cabelas in ~2014.  The conversion cylinder was purchased from Midway a few months ago.  Upon installation and function check, it was noted that the bolt fell when the hammer was started to let down, and the cylinder would rotate backwards.  Clearly this was not a good setup  :9)


So here are two pics that the gunsmith from Taylors sent me to give me an idea of what was needed.
START WITH THIS, AND SLOWLY WORK YOUR WAY TO A FINAL CONFIGURATION!






Next, here is a "BEFORE" shot that I took, highlighting the area that needs work:




And here is the gun with some handloads, Missouri Bullet Co HiTek Cowboy 250gr over 5.0gr of Trailboss in Starline.
Now that the bolt is locking properly, I can't wait to finally give it a shot  :-*

« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 08:15:15 PM by skyhawk »

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2020, 06:26:39 PM »
Hello Skyhawk and glad you found this forum.

  I don't mean to be negative but the pic that the "gunsmith" sent you was fairly drastic but your additional removal of material is rather alarming (especially around the backside!)!!  I'm surprised that it still functions!!
  Just to be clear, the very back side where you removed the material is the surface that rides the hammer cam. You need as much of a "contact patch" back there as you can keep for the cam to act on. I try to leave a full profile there. You only need to put a relief angle along the top outside edge (what the "smith" was trying to show you) and it needs barely, if any, at the rearmost upper corner.
  When your bolt starts dropping sooner , get a new one and start over.
 Again, I'm not trying to be "mean" or disrespectful but just trying to point out the mistake.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline skyhawk

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Re: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2020, 07:50:22 PM »
Hello, I appreciate your input but after much examination, in my case the rear corner mod was required.  The cylinder notches were so shallow that the rearmost corner was the only contact point when the hammer was cocked, and thinning it was absolutely necessary.

I started with what the gunsmith sent me.  It was a joke, not even close. I crept up on the final configuration for over an hour, slowly removing material, testing, examining etc.  I did not just go from zero to 100 in one shot.

But because the cylinder notches were so shallow, the top edge of the bolt leg never got anywhere near the thin part of the cam lobe on the hammer to allow the leg to slip off the cam.  In my case that rear corner was it, make or break. Work or don't work.  The top edge had zero influence whatsoever over the determining if the bolt leg would snap free of the cam lobe. 

I see what you mean about the backside material and now that I know what is needed for my gun I might be able to get it working with less material removed down the backside. The problem is I started with what the gunsmith sent me then realized the rear corner was my real problem.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 08:16:32 PM by skyhawk »

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2020, 09:09:58 PM »
The left rear corner (the outside corner that was removed from your bolt arm) is the last piece of the contact patch that rides the cam before it falls off the cam (resulting in "bolt drop").  The shallowness of the locking notch has nothing to do with the bolt arm falling off the cam. The depth of the notch has to do with the position of the arm as the cam meets the bolt arm.  There only needs to be enough of the top edge (that the Smith's pics showed) gone to allow the cam to push the arm to the side instead of the cam pushing the arm forward (thus unlocking the cylinder .  .  .  which is the problem). 
  One other thing that can be done along with this " fix" is to blend the cam (at the thinnest , the bottom of the cam) transition to the hammer surface so that it is a smooth transition with no amount of shoulder. The cam is also, too tall and should be shortened somewhat. I think you are fairly close to but do not quite fully understand the bolt /cam relationship. It's not the easiest thing to grasp and many folks that have been shooting S.A.'s for long time don't quite get it right. It helps to watch from below (trigger guard off of course) and from the top down the hammer slot. Watch the interaction of the cam and bolt arm  .  .  .  when it falls off the cam  .  .  .  when the bolt arm snaps back over the cam so the cycle may be repeated .  .  .  Then, you can better understand the surfaces that need to be kept (as much as possible) and the surfaces that need to be "massaged".

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Problem with Pietta 1858 and Taylor (R&D) Cylinder
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2020, 10:45:55 PM »
It occurs to me that many folks are probably trying to fit conversion cyls to revolvers that aren't timed correctly in the first place. If that is the case, it's no wonder folks have such an issue with this subject. I'd say 90% of the time, Remington pattern revolvers have very late timing. The timing should be the same as with Colt pattern S.A.'s .  The bolt should drop into the approach or on the cylinder at least 1 bolt width before the locking notch, followed with full cock and cylinder lock-up simultaneously. Some folks think the bolt should drop perfectly into the notch at full cock. It shouldn't!
  Therefore, I would recommend making sure the cap cylinder timing is correct before trying to fit a conversion cyl.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks