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Author Topic: Wad jamming trouble when firing  (Read 4904 times)

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Offline RobsTV

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Wad jamming trouble when firing
« on: October 05, 2011, 06:41:22 PM »
Have an original Remington 1858 (approx 1864 build date), not a replica.
 
Loaded with 22.5gr (by volume) Triple Seven FFFg, a wonderwad, Hornaday .454 ball (slight lead shavings during insertion), and a little black powder lube on top for good measure.

Rarely can I fire all six rounds without a wonderwad jamming up the works from last shot fired. The wonderwad is stuck between cylinder and barrel, preventing cylinder from rotating. Must remove cylinder to clear. Might get all 6 shots off. Might jam from wad after only 2 shots.

I think I am doing everything correct. If I omit the wad, then there will be space between powder and ball, won't go in further with plunger arm, so wad is used as filler more than chainfire prevention. Plus also hear pistol is more accurate the closer ball is to barrel. Only tested accuracy at 50 yards, and was not accurate at all. All over the place, high and low. didn't have time to first test at 25 yards or less. Can not locate any black powder around here, so stuck with the Triple Seven. Black powder might allow more volume since I am using 777 a little reduced as recommended, which then would not require a wad.
 
Any ideas on how to make this perform more reliably?
 
Thanks
 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 06:43:21 PM by RobsTV »

Offline Pustic

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 07:14:10 PM »
Wonder wads are not mandatory, and guns shoot just as good without them, and your's probably will too.  When I don't use them, I never have any problem seating the ball, and it shoots just fine.  ])M
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Offline Cult

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 08:41:35 PM »
I read about this problem on one of 'the other' forums recently, I believe that the problem was that the chamber and barrel were not correctly aligned and that the ball was whacking into the forcing cone and having to 'straighten up' before it went into the bore.  This split second was all it took for the wad to jam behind the ball when it was centering into the forcing cone.

Check the nipple pocket sides, is the nipple centered into the middle of the hammer cut-out.??
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 10:34:00 PM »
The shots all over the place could be from the 777. It doesn't like to be compressed and cant have an air space. I don't think I'd use the stuff in an original. I'd try to find Pyrodex if real black wasn't available. By all means check chamber alignment tho. The hand could be worn down and not letting the chambers line up.
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Offline Former Admin

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 01:50:33 AM »
ditto its got to be the alignment, 30 grns of black or pyro will bring the level up
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Offline RobsTV

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 04:22:01 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

Alignment is (was) an issue I think.

I had a broken trigger cylinder stop spring. Replaced spring last night and during testing noticed it still was not locking cylinder when fully cocked. This sometimes caused the cylinder to be a little off center, perhaps at 11:30 instead of 12. A little filing and bending of new spring and it now locks at 12 like it should. Will test at the range this weekend. A side effect of messing with the spring now seems to have given me a hair trigger. I can deal with that as long as it is properly lined up and locked now, which it is.

Next time I ride out of the area I'll try to find BP or Pyrodex P. They do carry the Pyrodex R/S at walmart, but have not bothered because it is not made for pistols and I already had the 777 FFFg that I picked up at a gun show (no BP allowed to be sold). I also use the 777 FFFg in about 1/4 of the rounds I shoot through the 1873 Trapdoor. Just starting testing stuff, and it is what I have. Last week I picked up IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 for the Trapdoor and Enfields, since load charts show data in both. Still want occasional smoke with the Trapdoor though. This weekend will be first test of those loads.

Thanks

Offline Former Admin

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 04:27:20 AM »
i personally dont think it would hurt to run a little r/s through it!  just my humble opinion and it dosent mean im right, but ive done it and it worked fine
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Offline RobsTV

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 05:10:01 AM »
i personally dont think it would hurt to run a little r/s through it!  just my humble opinion and it dosent mean im right, but ive done it and it worked fine

Just read the other thread comparing and looks like I'll give the R/S a try in next loads.

Thanks!

Offline Hawg

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 07:40:55 AM »
RS is about all I use anymore. I'll pick up some P if I run across it but it's rare that I do.
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Offline RobsTV

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2011, 09:17:14 AM »
Looking at load data for R/S Vs P Vs 777 FFFg and FFg, it looks like I should be able to load as much as 30gr of 777. (yes, I will still pickup and use the R/S). Just did some measuring use 28gr of 777 instead of 22.5gr, along with a wad. What I found out was that I was wrong about ball size. With this new load, I can see it slightly compressing the wad, but then the wad springs the ball back up a little. Ball is not fitting snug in cylinder. A little tight at opening, but then no longer tight once it enters cylinder. If I push ball very hard with my finger I can get it to move down then spring back up a little. Looks like I need to bump up from .454 to .457 or ? Is the .457 the largest usable?

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 09:17:50 AM by RobsTV »

Offline Fly

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 02:34:56 PM »
May I ask what R/S is? ???
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Offline RobsTV

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 02:42:00 PM »

May I ask what R/S is? ???
                                       Fly ^y%

http://www.hodgdon.com/pyrodex-granular.html

« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:42:39 PM by RobsTV »

Offline Former Admin

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 05:23:20 PM »
pyrodex p is fer pistols and rs is fer rifle/ shotgun, the equivalent to ffg and the p is triple f
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Offline Dellbert

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Re: Wad jamming trouble when firing
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 09:19:28 PM »
I have had more trouble with triple 7 than any other powder I have ever used. In my revolvers ti shoots all over the place in my rifles the rd balls will not group well at 100 yrds. I stopped using it and my guns shoot just fine. I don't like Triple 7 and not wasting money on it any more. People at the range are the same way. I would weather shoot real bp or Pyrodex P or RS works just fine in revolvers. I like to use Pyrodex P in my rifles to. 70 to 80grs works real well with rd ball or bullets in my 50 cal Hawken and 50 cal plains rifle. The plains rifle will put a rd ball through the top of a drink can at 50 yrds and come out the bottom leaving just a round cylinder laying on the ground. You can try that out and not have to be buying all different kinds of powder. On the other hand if you use RS you can use less powder in the revolvers and may save a little money on powder. The revolvers work fine with RS. Try it out you my in up happy with it. Just my 2 cents. Maybe I'm just a boob or something.  {L*
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 09:32:15 PM by Dellbert »
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