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Author Topic: FS keeping it  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline Hewy

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FS keeping it
« on: January 24, 2020, 11:38:47 AM »
Modified to accept a Kirst gated .45 Colt five shot cylinder in 2017 from a new Pietta 5 1/2" 44 precusion revolver I purchased .
No longer "For Sale"
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 08:31:07 AM by Hewy »
Hewy
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Offline Exbadguy

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Re: FS 1858 Remington conversion
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2020, 07:58:13 PM »
question,,couldn't you just sell/ship it with the kirst cylinder removed
to avoid FFL hassle?

Offline Hewy

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Re: FS 1858 Remington conversion
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2020, 08:36:57 PM »
THE FRAME HAS BEEN MODIFIED this makes it a firearm in the eyes of government , therefore
falls into a requirement to be transferred through a licensed FFL.
Hewy
Better to be gettin , than gettin got.

Offline Exbadguy

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Re: FS 1858 Remington conversion
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2020, 04:24:15 PM »
I understand,,thankyou

Offline Hewy

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Re: FS 1858 Remington conversion
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 08:35:05 AM »
 ??? ??? Humm should I  keep this gun? Appears to be no interest.
Here is what it costs to do the conversion : The gun new $279, the Kirst Conversion cylinder $320.
No cost to modify frame, I did it my self , with excellent directions so  maybe a $1.00 for the sanding drums.......$600 Total
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 12:06:19 PM by Hewy »
Hewy
Better to be gettin , than gettin got.

Offline Bad Karma

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Re: FS 1858 Remington conversion
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 06:18:39 PM »
THE FRAME HAS BEEN MODIFIED this makes it a firearm in the eyes of government , therefore
falls into a requirement to be transferred through a licensed FFL.
According to the ATF, when you modify a frame to permanently use fixed ammunition, it becomes a firearm. Remove the cylinder and replace it with the original and it is no longer capable of accepting fixed ammunition. If this were not the case uberti, Pietta and others couldn’t sell the revolvers as non firearms because with the addition of a Kirst conversion they become capable of accepting fixed ammunition. Your revolver is not permanently modified to accept fixed ammunition. This from our local ATF office.

Offline Hawg

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 08:16:34 PM »
When you cut it for a loading gate it becomes  permanently modified to accept fixed ammunition. It would basically be the same thing as removing the cylinder from a Colt Python and trying to ship it without going through an FFL.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 10:45:59 AM »
Hi, see:

https://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/HowellConversions-GATED1858RemingtonPietta.45LC.aspx

I have often thought that if one no longer owned the conversion cylinder or had one available, but had a C&B gun modified to provide a loading port, one could argue that the opening is simply an enhanced cap loading recess.

However, I wouldn't want to chance that argument winning.

Regards,
Richard

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 12:08:08 PM »
  As long as the loading port was finished to match the rest of the frame, and the through bored cylinder and recoil shield wasn't in sight, I'd bet nobody would notice the modification. The law these days is mostly focused on "assault" rifles.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline mazo kid

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 05:33:25 PM »
There is one more aspect in this question. Since YOU made this "permanent" modification, you did in fact make a gun without the required license. I know, picky-picky, but I don't think that legally, you can even sell this gun. Someone please set me straight if I am wrong.

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2020, 01:24:55 AM »
  I thought a citizen was allowed to build a modern gun for themselves without any registration as long as they didn't try to sell it. Wouldn't this also apply to modifying a percussion revolver, as long as you didn't transfer it to somebody else?
  I believe just lately my wonderful state of California has changed that for semi-auto rifles because of all the people building AR15s out of 80% receivers.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline Hawg

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 02:12:12 AM »
There is one more aspect in this question. Since YOU made this "permanent" modification, you did in fact make a gun without the required license. I know, picky-picky, but I don't think that legally, you can even sell this gun. Someone please set me straight if I am wrong.

That is my understanding as well.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Hewy

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 12:36:01 PM »
There is one more aspect in this question. Since YOU made this "permanent" modification, you did in fact make a gun without the required license. I know, picky-picky, but I don't think that legally, you can even sell this gun. Someone please set me straight if I am wrong.
Mazo and Hawg
I hear a lot of variations of understanding the definitions, that is the main reason I pulled the ad.
Even my FFL owner didn't clearly understand, he said he would ship it , however  the receiving FFL
might question the modification with the original black powder cylinder.
Hewy
Better to be gettin , than gettin got.

Offline Biggfoot44

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2020, 12:15:00 AM »
  A peson , not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms may make a firearm for their personal use , not falling under the the jurisdiction of the NFA , without any licencing or paperwork .  Leastways at the Federal level . Hysteria at the state level has some States considering legislation , but it's not widespread yet .

   The resulting firearm(s) can Not be built as a business , or with * intent to sell* without an FFL 007 . One built with intent for personal use , Can be sold or traded , in the normal course of upgrading one's collection . Yeah , slightly clearer than mud , but that's the Federal law .

     Such selling, trading, etc must otherwise conform with state and federal law governing the sale/ transfering of Firearms .

   Whether this instance , the modifications made constitute " perment modifications for firing cartridges " , I am not presently commenting .

     *******************

   As general commentary , Ctg Conversions of cap & ball revolvers are fine things , if you want a Converted Revolver on purpose . They're fun and our whole hobby frequently involves a healthy dose of historical interest .

    But if your primary goal is a ctg firing single action revolver , it is less $$ to start out with a Blackhawk or SAA clone , than to convert a cap & ball .

Offline Hawg

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Re: FS keeping it
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 08:57:22 AM »
According to the BATFE the frame IS the gun. Therefore if the frame is modified to accept cartridges it is for all intents and purposes a modern firearm. I know people buy and sell conversions over the internet with no FFL all the time. They ship the cylinder separately. I'm not aware of anybody getting caught doing it but that doesn't mean they wont.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.