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Author Topic: Longevity of nitrated papers.  (Read 124 times)

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Offline Fielder

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Longevity of nitrated papers.
« on: November 25, 2019, 06:09:44 PM »
I haven't tried nitrated papers for paper cartridges in cap and ball revolvers.
I wonder how long the papers will last without drying out the nitrate and becoming more or less just like regular papers again?
Anybody have thoughts on this?

Offline mike116

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2019, 06:20:33 PM »
Nitrating is not necessary in the first place so I don't know about how long it will last.  Since it isn't needed, how long it lasts is a question that doesn't need to be answered for me at least.

Offline Fielder

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 06:42:23 PM »
I've always used plain paper too. Was reading online today somewhere where someone made nitrated papers and said if you touch a match too a paper between your fingers watch out because it will not burn but ignite so fast that it can burn under your fingernails. (Actually he made his treated papers with Titewad reloading powder paste (powder plus water instead of nitrate).
So I wanted to experiment with papers to see how fast they ignite with a match. But not worth the effort if the papers dry out in a few days.

Offline mike116

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 08:13:12 PM »
It might be fun to see what happens wit some different mixtures and papers but I'm content with plain curler papers.  I would probably burn my eyebrows off or something if I started playing with fire.    I would love to see a video if you decide to experiment.

Offline SourMashII

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 09:00:31 PM »
I've always used plain paper too. Was reading online today somewhere where someone made nitrated papers and said if you touch a match too a paper between your fingers watch out because it will not burn but ignite so fast that it can burn under your fingernails. (Actually he made his treated papers with Titewad reloading powder paste (powder plus water instead of nitrate).
So I wanted to experiment with papers to see how fast they ignite with a match. But not worth the effort if the papers dry out in a few days.

My unspoken quest is the ultimate self combusting cartridge... I've gone so far as to cast a mould from the chamber of my Lyman, curling papers soaked in nitrated solution mixed with the titewad solution, etc.
BusyHands94 and I actually discussed a solution (roasted corn powder? I dunno, wasn't nitrating, wasn't the Titewad deal, involved an oven and a common kitchen ingredient, that when roasted became a combustible powder, huge amounts of threads on it, which then lead me to pyrotechnics pages, and then finer ground black... ADD and Whiskey were a bad combination back in the day).

At the end of the day? I NEVER shoot, and NEVER roll my own, bought 4-5# of black in 2014, and still have most of it.
Soaking this up like a Parched sponge.

Offline Hawg

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2019, 10:01:10 AM »
I don't use paper cartridges anymore but when I did I mostly used tea bags. I used plain old wrapping paper with my Sharps.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2019, 11:03:49 AM »
Hi Fielder, potassium nitrate on paper will last for a 100+ years if kept dry. If it becomes wet, it can be dried.

IMO nitrated paper used in paper cartridges minimize residual paper in the chambers after shooting. It should also minimize the chance of starting brush fires since it will completely consume the paper quickly.

Nitrating paper is an easy process. Make a supersaturated solution of potassium nitrate, soak the paper, and then dry the paper. Sodium nitrate can be substituted for potassium nitrate, but sodium nitrate is hygroscopic absorbing water from the air. This is a cheap source of potassium nitrate:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GVYXKC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Regards,
Richard



There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Fielder

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 04:19:25 PM »
I have some stump killer so it should be worth my while to make some papers since it looks like they will last. Thanks, all!

Offline G Dog

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 11:39:29 PM »
Hi Fielder - What’s your own particular method for rolling carts?  What sort of paper do you plan to use or have used already?

If you use  KNO3 on some paper then please save some of the same that’s untreated and do a comparative  test - like with just a match. 

Depending upon the type of paper used it may become apparent that ‘nitrating’ is an unnecessary exercise.  On the other hand, we of the non-nitrating persuasion may learn a useful lesson.



"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".  
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
Hi G Dog, the destruction of nitrated paper compared to untreated paper when under pressure of firing should be significant. Nitrating paper is so simple, why not give it a try.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 03:45:13 PM »
I made some nitrated paper and when I dried it I did not hang up the sheets, rather I laid them flat on a non-porous surface. That way the nitrate solution does not drip off but instead soaks in and stays in the paper. I have not made any cartridges yet but I tried burning some of the paper and it burns slow, like a fuse, but thoroughly. I used computer paper which is pretty thick.

Offline SourMashII

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Re: Longevity of nitrated papers.
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2019, 08:43:11 AM »
I've always used plain paper too. Was reading online today somewhere where someone made nitrated papers and said if you touch a match too a paper between your fingers watch out because it will not burn but ignite so fast that it can burn under your fingernails. (Actually, he made his treated papers with Titewad reloading powder paste (powder plus water instead of nitrate).
So I wanted to experiment with papers to see how fast they ignite with a match. But not worth the effort if the papers dry out in a few days.

My unspoken quest is the ultimate self-combusting cartridge... I've gone so far as to cast a mould from the chamber of my Lyman, curling papers soaked in a nitrated solution mixed with the titewad solution, etc.
BusyHands94 and I discussed a solution (roasted corn powder? I dunno, wasn't nitrating, wasn't the Titewad deal, involved an oven and a common kitchen ingredient, that when roasted became a combustible powder, huge amounts of threads on it, which then lead me to pyrotechnics pages, and then finer ground black... ADD and Whiskey was a bad combination back in the day).

At the end of the day? I NEVER shoot, and NEVER roll my own, bought 4-5# of black in 2014, and still have most of it.

this was the binder Busy and I talked about, just scrolled back through two years of Messenger chat to find this... :

"I recommend dextrin. I used to use it for making cannon fuse.

Spread a box of cornstarch on a cookie sheet and bake that sumbitch at 400 for 2 hours, turn it every 20 minutes.

Use only a small amount. A little goes a long way.

I have used it in rocket cores and fuse for depth charges, cannons, etc. It is a great binder."
Soaking this up like a Parched sponge.