1858 remington forum

Author Topic: No 24506  (Read 142 times)

45 Dragoon and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
No 24506
« on: October 11, 2019, 12:54:30 PM »
As posted i bought No 24506.
A rather early New model NMA.

Idea here is for a full blown resto. Yep,it´s numbers matching..for whatever that´s worth.

DVC - 2019

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 01:01:15 PM »
Flaws?
Well of course there´s flaws.

Pic 1.
As you can see the hammer could be set further back. Absolute tongue of the trigger is broken off. Will try and repair that with inconel weldrod.

Pic 2.
..and then there´s those that wonder why i´m anal about getting the barrel off these old warhorses?
Yeah. Right.

Pic 3&4
What can i add? Gun´s got a rather peculiar wear... That´s the barrel right,and that said the end shake for the cylinder is a whopping 0,7mm!!!
Barrel,to me,just needs a good clean and we´re home free. As far as the cylinder though i´m giving thought to do that "correctly. Ie;fill material in at the ratchet part at the end of it.
In turn the holes for the cylinder pin is worn you won´t believe. Need to bush that.

Pic 5.
All there! In fact,actual pitting is rather far apart..so this one´ll clean up nicely.

Pic 6.
Indeed,as Hawg pointed out,this a very early NMA as it´s got a brass front sight adjustable for windage.

DVC - 2019

Online Hawg

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9800
  • You done went and done it now!
Re: No 24506
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 03:49:08 PM »
May 1863.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2019, 06:25:15 AM »
Yep,sure is Hawg.

Have played around with the piece a little...and a plan is coming together here.

First up to be adressed is the issues with and around the cylinder i believe. Point is though that i´m normally,as any machinist capable will nod to,rather anal about set clearances.
End shake needs to be handled,no worries there,and i plan to add material to the rear of the cylinder and remachine that to work as intended.
That still leaves us with the clearance between the actual pin and the cylinder. Thing is,it isn´t exactly excessive but..150 yrs is 150yrs after all.
Pin in itself measure semi cylindrical at least,coming all in at like 6,68mm..which of course is a bit thin but the point here is that it measure that over approx its entire length.
The easy way out would of course be to bring the 7,00mm reamer out and replace the pin with a stainless ground such. Buuuut..keeping it original sure got its points too.

In any case i´ll have to turn bushings/inserts for the frame. Them anchor point are simply way off handing a rather large radial play,which of course is a no-can-do.

Annoying but the TIG welder is out of gas. "Someone" (read - me) left the tank open...and closed the shop. Ergo,dead in the water. Buut..there´s a monday coming too..
For now then what i can,and should,do is set on which route to take. Turning bushings with a 6,7mm inner is a no brainer to be honest and the cylinder can sure be drilled out to take brass bushings at each end too.
But..should i? Unsure...

7mm ground stainless as well as the reamer needed i´ve got laying around.
DVC - 2019

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2019, 02:17:52 PM »
Ended up going the 7mm route.
Net result is a bankvault lockup. Timing is back in order,what´s needed now is to elongate the tongue on the trigger.
TIG welder..out of argon so need to replace that come monday.

Trued the cylinder up first pass while at it. Going to revisit that for better finish. Fabbed a 0,65mm thick shim which made it all come together,for starters.
Think i´m going to keep that shim and just bring the TIG to it and fill up what´s needed from there.

Yep. Muzzle got a fresh crown,and the same thing the other end of the barrel. Nah..for a first day i´m good...  )L$
DVC - 2019

Online Hawg

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9800
  • You done went and done it now!
Re: No 24506
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2019, 03:55:39 PM »
 {?| You sir are a magician of the finest honor.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 04:59:26 PM »
Thank you Sir.
However Hawg i regard myself MAYBE as the advanced hobbyist and that´s about it  (o&
True is that since i became a member of this fantastic board and got to be one of its regulars..things have evolved a bit,and i these days do work for others too - as you´re aware.

That might very well be but i´ll tell you what´s more. Over in our end of the world we´ve got a place online known as "Robsoft",where most guys serious about shooting hang out.
There,as many other places,i was met with great disbelief as i ventured restoring these firearms just a few yrs back. Sometimes even going astray from stock. General consensus was that i was merely "destroying" the firearm in case and was a "Bubba" in general.

Well.
What has evolved,which really has got extremely little with me to do,is an entire industry waking up AS THERE IS a market for restored such guns,WHEN talking quality work.
Reason alone tells that they can not all be "collectors grade" them 1860´s Remingtons,and nor are they. As such worn out old guns might just as well be put to good use and..thus the time honored NRA view on things have started to degrade a bit Hawg.
For better for worse i guess.

But the fact remains. Quality job and PULLING THE MAINTENANCE NEEDED will always pay off. Some go off at the top of their lungs stating that any and all collectors value is ruined.
I beg to differ. A gun that´s "past collectors grade" will on the contrary come to fill a number of new tasks in life. Not only will it,the job pulled properly,be an old gun that folk cherish for exactly that..being 150yrs old..it will also become a USABLE such and what´s more,at least IMO,a thing of beauty to boot.
Fresh "salts only" blueing...hard to beat that from a looks perspective IMO Hawg.

What i´m saying is that the take per se is so fresh that it´s still got the ranks divided in two. Pity really,while being completely assured what´ll get the win in the long run.

The mere FACT of handing a 150+yr old civil war gun to lets say a 16yr old boy and letting him first hand experience what the boys did fighting for freedom..there´s no price tag on that IMO Hawg.
Pulling a resto on one will in turn secure that it´s there in another 100yrs to come. Doing so though,pulling the resto that is,DOES take love for what you´re doing.
No.
No you do NOT have to be an "expert" but being a jack of many trades through my years within the racing industry makes that..this here with old Remingtons isn´t exactly rocket science so..

Gone are the days when there was a death penalty for fooling around with these guns,and i for one am happy they are. Again. In a manner i for one think we have a sorts of moral obligation to pass on the EXPERIENCE of what these guns could,and to this day,do. No offense ment in ANY manner in ANY direction,but a replica will never hand you that. Firing the real deal will. Every time.

That said.
God save us from the Mr Handymans of the world tho..... :9)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 05:03:31 PM by Racing »
DVC - 2019

Online Hawg

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9800
  • You done went and done it now!
Re: No 24506
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2019, 09:20:52 PM »
I am usually one of those against doing any mods to an original. Hell it gets next to me when somebody bobs a barrel on a repro but I can do nothing but praise your work in bringing these fine old guns back from the dead or near dead. Kudos to you.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 04:25:07 PM »
...well brother.
..coming from you...

*takes a bow* Thank you.
DVC - 2019

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2019, 04:30:01 PM »
On that note.
That split grip scale... I see a few different routes here. One is,of course,to just fab a pair of fresh ones and be done with it.
That tho..would be a tad detrimental to me in this case.

Idea here is to overhaul/restore an old stocker to being..an old stocker. Just in WAY better shape and condition. Thus,albeit split and what not,them old scales there ARE part of the original gun.
So.
What i´m entertaining at the moment is to put them on the belt sander...measure how much i thus cut out,and then just glue a way lighter looking piece of walnut as a shim in between. Like a sandwich solution if you wish.
My point then being that the scales would still be the originals,just one of them repaired.

Hm. Replacing THEM or..the one..nah. Don´t feel that´s an option. Why the light hue walnut then? Well,if i´m to pull that stunt i want it to show. Instead of trying to blend a shim like that in ´til the cows come home...just run with it and regard it as a feature more than a flaw.

What do the rest of you think? Split is longitudal. Ie;it runs from the top to the bottom of the scale.
DVC - 2019

Online 45 Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: No 24506
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2019, 05:31:40 PM »
Well then,  why not "inlet" a "less than full length" stiffener so that none of the repair shows? The original break line will be evident.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline Racing

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1065
Re: No 24506
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2019, 06:05:58 PM »
Mike.
Not sure i get what you´re thinking here.?
DVC - 2019

Online Hawg

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9800
  • You done went and done it now!
Re: No 24506
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2019, 06:08:21 PM »
What I would do is spread the crack and work some epoxy into it and clamp it tight until it dries.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Online 45 Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: No 24506
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 06:20:18 PM »
By creating a shallow cavity on the backside and laying in a metal or wood "stiffener" (filler that adds strength), you won't have to disturb the outside surface.  Doing it shy of "full length", it would definitely stay hidden.
  Setup would be like Hawg (hey Hawgie!!) suggests which would give you a  solid piece. Carefully inletting a shallow recess and epoxying the stiffener in place would complete the repair.

Mike

Online necessaryevil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
Re: No 24506
« Reply #14 on: Today at 07:53:20 AM »
"Well.
What has evolved,which really has got extremely little with me to do,is an entire industry waking up AS THERE IS a market for restored such guns,WHEN talking quality work.
Reason alone tells that they can not all be "collectors grade" them 1860´s Remingtons,and nor are they. As such worn out old guns might just as well be put to good use and..thus the time honored NRA view on things have started to degrade a bit Hawg.
For better for worse i guess."

I'm reading this and thinking it's just a shame you don't have that equipment down here in Spain, because I would be commissioning your talents for my original Colt Navy  (T^