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Author Topic: Hammer spring  (Read 459 times)

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Offline Hewy

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Hammer spring
« on: August 07, 2019, 05:31:04 PM »
I know this has been talked about for years, but got to bring it up again.
How to make the hammer a little easier to cock. ?
Cut a slot in the spring , grind material off edges, grind material off to make the spring thinner,
Make it shorter. ^y% even install a Colt spring .Out of  the above......... has anyone done any successfully ?
Hewy
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Online 45 Dragoon

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 08:47:05 PM »
Of course!!

 Thining the width (full length) is the best way. The slot cut or "hour glassing"  will lead to early failure.
Keep some water close by so that you can keep the spring cool (I dunk it with each pass). I use a bench grinder and a little technique and wah lah!! (merican for viola!!) Go slow and be methodical.  When you get the pull you want,  (check often. ) sand the edges you just ground so the grain will go the full length, top to bottom. Polish.

 There, easy as pie!! Well, with a little practice it will be!

Mike
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2019, 08:58:42 PM »
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Offline Hewy

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2019, 10:06:26 AM »
Ok Mike, glad you jumped in. I had reservations about the listed methods , width reducing seems best . Thanks
Hewy
Hewy
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Offline GrayFox

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 12:42:16 PM »
Isn't that Wollf spring too short on the bottom end to work without slipping off?  GF

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 12:55:49 PM »
Hi GrayFox, that Wolff spring fits both Uberti and Pietta 1858's perfectly.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Omnivore

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 09:07:42 AM »
You can control the apparent cocking force, and the stacking profile, by changing the angle at which it engages the hammer.  No need to thin the spring, necessarily, though some of the Italian mainsprings are brutally strong.

The idea is to get the hammer closer to the "cam over" point at full cock.  It's all about the angle of the free end of the spring as it contacts the hammer.  Colts are more amenable to this, but it works with Remingtons as well.  Remingtons need this treatment most, as their hammer & spring geometry favors more severe stacking.

In this way you can eliminate stacking, and it is the stacking, more than anything, which makes the spring feel too stiff.  I some cases it's possible to even reverse stacking, such that the hammer gets easier to cock the farther back it is pulled.  In the extreme then, the hammer will stay cocked when the trigger is pulled, because the mainspring is cammed over and is now holding hammer at full cock.  That's to illustrate how much control you have over it, simply by changing the angle of the spring tip at the hammer.
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Offline Hewy

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 09:20:11 AM »
Your engineer speak is beyond me. Could you explain in sophomore language please  ???
Hewy
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 01:43:49 PM »
Some (not all, only some) replicas are adjustable via the spring set screw in the front of the grip frame. Others only use this screw to lock the spring in place. How to tell? Take the grips off and tighten the screw. If you see the spring bending as you tighten, it's one o' them. Others, well I have a few. You can tighten until the cows come home and all it does is get tight.
I've done as Goon suggests and 'overdid it', and was able to add a little more tension via the set screw...perfect!
As Omni suggests, the main gremlin is when the hammer wheel has to 'climb up' over the end of the spring. A gentle tapering ramp, mirror polish and lots of Lubriplate (lithium grease) makes all the difference in the world on some pretty nasty Remmy actions.
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Offline G Dog

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 03:14:03 PM »
Your engineer speak is beyond me. Could you explain in sophomore language please  ???

Hi Hewy, I had to DuckDuckGo around a little on some of the nomenclature in Omni’s post too and not for the first time.  That’s good though.  That’s really good. If we already knew everything about what we read here then we would learn very little.  Nicht wahr?


Cam over is referring to the point of adjustment of your reloading dies in between where the shellholder touches the die body and where the handle/ram isn't able to bottom out. In the middle somewhere is a point when the shellholder will contact the die body Before the ram/handle reaches it's maximum travel YET is still able to be forced down the rest of the way against the die“.

The term/phrase stacking, stacking point or stacking profile has been used here before by Omni and Dragoon and others.  I’ve inferred it’s meaning (sort of) but have yet to find a concise definition.
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Offline Hewy

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 10:21:09 PM »
Hey G Gog, thanks ,hope Omni can explain.
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Hewy
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Online 45 Dragoon

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2019, 01:02:37 AM »
  Spring "Stacking" simply  refers to the continual added force needed to move a spring loaded (powered) part or device to its intended end or function. Flat springs in revolvers tend to "stack" rather quickly mainly because they have a short working range.  They already don't like the tension they have at rest and your cycling of the action puts them in motion which forces them to move further through the range they have. 
   The bolt spring is usually very over tensioned which is why I change them to "coil-torsion" springs. This type of spring works as if you are winding the spring tighter. Since it has coils, the "working range" is considerably bigger. The more coils, the less each coil has to move to allow the same range of motion for the "working arm" of the spring. Of course, these springs will power the bolt and trigger with ease and since the working range is so big, the "stacking" is very linear which means less increase in force (over all) is felt/needed for these parts to do their respective jobs.
   A compression spring is used for the hand  in my action just like in most all current S.A. actions. Compression springs "stack " as well, just not as eagerly as what we're used to in our flat sprung revolvers. Since they mount in the frame, the force is transmitted (by a pushrod or plunger) to the moving hand. The hand moves vertically so compression of the spring is minimal .  .  .  therefore, stacking is minimal.
   Lastly, the mainspring stays a flat spring precisely for the reasons mentioned above. It's not happy at rest, gets moved a pretty fair range and moves back to rest as quickly as possible. It also stores a lot of energy  which moves the hammer to rest the fastest and most efficient way with plenty of energy to pop a cap or punch a primer. It's the best choice for the job because compression and coil-torsion springs are slow movers!
   This basic setup is what is used in the Freedom Arms S.A. revolvers (roughly a $2000.00 entry fee!). I use a version of it in my own developed "Outlaw Mule" action.

or,

you could say. Stacking  - "the amount of increased force needed to overcome the increased tension the spring adds as it moves through it's working range". Either one .  .  . 
 
Mike
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« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:20:39 AM by 45 Dragoon »

Offline Hewy

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2019, 06:53:33 AM »
OK now I understand.
You intoduced coil spring, I can relate to that. I have rebuild a few cars and trucks.
Some required coil springs  to accommodate a better ride quality, the car industry used the term "progressive"
when referring to spring compression of road wheels moving up and down. IE when hitting a bump in the road
the spring travel would be slightly progressively softened as the spring was compressed.
I will proceed to thin the Remington spring.
Thanks
Hewy
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 02:23:49 PM by Hewy »
Hewy
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Offline Racing

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Re: Hammer spring
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2019, 02:30:19 PM »
One step that hasn´t been discussed...

Try cold swaging the spring in a vise with regular hand force. It WILL take on a new set and this can be made to be rather soft.

I use a combination. I start out with just forcing the spring to a new "relaxed" state and then take it from there.
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