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Author Topic: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle  (Read 7796 times)

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Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2020, 02:07:49 PM »


Don´t worry. The screw for the hammer is around, just forgot about it as i put the lock back together last time out..
Nope.
No dyes or similar, just straight up boiled linseed and turpentine.

As noted, have tried a few different ways of getting that black staining out of the stock, but to no avail. OTOH it´s starting to grow on me to be honest.



Indeed all the little things are starting to come together too.



Yes. The duffel cut repair is still "in the raw". Need to address that.



In dire need of a fresh crown, and thus it got one. Knowing all to well what it means for accuracy out of old guns.



Indeed lacking the original front barrel band. That there is for a Remington rolling block as stated and works just as well i presume.?



That black though... ^y%

Then again, i truly find it fascinating that a gun this age, looking like most other rifles of the time, carries with it the performance these boomsticks do.
Impresses the living crap out of me, i´ll tell ya that much!
DVC - 2020

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2020, 05:10:09 PM »
Came out very nice!
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2020, 12:28:16 PM »
You sure have 'the touch' with these old smokepoles, Racing!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2020, 04:05:37 PM »
Thx boys.

You know what?



I decided to go after this. And did.
Pure acetone..nope.
Very aggressive oven cleaner...nope.
Even ran out and picked a steam cleaner up...nope.

I about gave up. One chance left...
Oxalic

Guess what.



It IS slow..and tedious BUT IT WORKS!  )L$ )L$

Right now doing the entire thing. Bit by bit. Will report back
DVC - 2020

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2020, 07:54:32 PM »
School me. What is Oxalic?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2020, 09:41:06 PM »
Basically just an acid.
Used by wood workers to remove especially darker stains. Smaller or larger.
As an acid it of course brings safety regards but.. smooth and simple enough to use. Regular rubber gloves to do the dishes works. Some sort of eye protection and clothes you don´t care about.
That´s in essence it.

Have done the entire stock and truth be told it needs even more of the stuff. But for now it´ll do, i´ll get back with a few pics asap. It IS however already a TON better so can´t recommend oxalic acid enough for stocks that´s seen better days..
No matter how we regard this we´re still talking approx 150+yr old walnut that in this case has been through hell n back.

In cleaing the thing up though, the lower ledge of the stock was quite black and "gooey" and as that cleaned up...



Well it´s not the serial at least, i can tell you that. Beats me what it is at this point, have asked over at Brit militaria.
That said i´ve also got word that the package from Italy is inbound. Most likely in Sweden as i write this very early morning Friday.
Going to be a REAL interesting weekend if they manage to deliver today or tomorrow.
DVC - 2020

Offline Grumpy gumpy

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2020, 12:51:42 AM »


That said i´ve also got word that the package from Italy is inbound. Most likely in Sweden as i write this very early morning Friday.
Going to be a REAL interesting weekend if they manage to deliver today or tomorrow.
Now everyone is intrigued
Gumpy

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2020, 06:02:18 AM »
Most of all me!
But as updates just died i suspect, again, that Swedish customs has been at it...
*sighs loudly*
Of course both rifles in Q are exempt.. but leave it to those guys to eff that up. So i just wrote the chief down there a mail. Again.
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2020, 11:44:31 AM »




Now THAT`S more like it. Effin yes...n yes... {L*
DVC - 2020

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2020, 06:51:14 PM »
Yes it is!!!
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2020, 08:51:48 AM »
Uhu.
The oxalic acid sure dried the wood out, which still shows, but adding linseed bit by bit is what it´s all about to an extent i guess.

Never had i thought that the acid would work as well as it did though. THAT was a surprise to say the least.

No. No, it´ll never look "new" and nor is that the intent. What it does though is look like a TON better, which i guess is all good in this case.
Somewhere down the line i have to add in the fact of where i started at after all. In hindsight i for a while there thought this was a gonner, for real. That the best i could ever do was patch it up and be content with that.

As it turns out.. never say never. This worked and i truly learned something new. Oxalic acid will be part of the arsenal working on old guns from hereon out, sure as pie.

The nose cap in turn is the one that belongs to the fore stock. Ie; the Remington RB one. Both works and looks like the part so all good on that one too.
Front barrel band is for the Remington as well, i just made i cut in it and added ears. Again to conform more to the stock thing.

So yes. Happy as pie.

Now for the real fun part, to shoot the living snot out of it.
DVC - 2020

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2020, 11:55:23 AM »
That is a good tip on the oxalic acid. The rifle looks fantastic! It ended up looking like an antique rifle should look........something that shoots!
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Grumpy gumpy

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2020, 03:10:19 PM »
One thing to be wary of with oxalis acid, too much on a piece of timber can make it soft and fluff up the surface, so soaking a stock it it can end badly, looks like you got it just right
Gumpy

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2020, 05:16:47 PM »
Thx boys.

Well.



A Tail carbine showed up.



Gun has been worked on, but with at least some sense of decency. In other words, to be honest? Not all that much to do or cry about.



Right. This is what the breech of a Tail is SUPPOSED to look like! 52 btw is the mark for 52 bore. Or..45 caliber. Sort of. These rifles as the Whitworth sport polygonal rifling remember?
In the case of the Whitworth hexagonal such and in the case of the Monkey tail octagonal such. Just..
keep that in mind as we move on.



Right. This is the one point where this gun deviates from stock. Normally there´s to be what LOOKS like two rivets to that lid. Two slot-less screws that keep that piece of dove tail rail to the lid. Look closely. There´s three.
For some reason there´s an extra pin added to this gun. Works just fine, that´s no issue. I just wonder.. why? The stock slider setup, when in working order, works just fine for the application.





Yeah baby! 451 for the win!  (T^ (T^ Once you go 451... LOL Thing needed a fresh crown no doubt, which i of course handed it in a jiffy. Speaking of which the rifling of this one is in real good order so going to be a hoot shooting the thing. See what it´s capable of.







45 caliber. The Tails, as the Whits, carry stampings telling minor and major diameter. That is, these guns measure 451 (or 450 at times) across the flats of that polygonal rifling. Then 483 across maximum diameter. So..?
45 caliber? Might be. You guys tell me.



Rear sight. Have in mind that this is a very very short carbine. None the less the rear sight runs to 1000 yards. For a reason FOR ONCE!  (?^ (?^





Indeed. What tells the story i believe. So? Nothing at fault? What so ever?
Of course there is. The threads for the nipple needs to be freshened up. Cross threaded at some time i suppose but..that´s it. Apart from a solid clean, now followed by layer upon layer of linseed, the thing is just ..good to go.
Almost...dare i say it, boring.  ^y%





Uhu. This is a reaaaaaaaaally short boom stick! I thus bet that T7 will be just the ticket.  (?L
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Westley Richards "monkey tail" short rifle
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2020, 08:21:30 PM »


Time for the 20" barrel carbine then. The lock got a trip around the block. Apart from service i handed it a trigger job too.
b
The threads for the nipple had been cross threaded why.. not the best of scenarios.
Cleaned that out with a regular 5/16UNC tap and cranked down on the thing...we´re good to go.



I presume out of lack of understanding it´s not uncommon to see Tails modified as far as the trap door and its lock system/setup.
Now.
That sled runs on a dovetailed piece of rail. The rear of that sled is cut at an angle, and that corresponds to a similar "negative" angle at the absolute receiver end.
Powder goes boom.. sled travels backwards and as the sled vs receiver are cut to meet up it simply means that the more the boom the harder the lockup is. Seems not all have understood this.. why this particular carbine has been retrofitted with an extra pin through the lid that runs into a fresh drilled hole at the absolute rear of the receiver.
What´s more..at a fit that isn´t worth a crap.. It´s out of mild steel however why MAKING it fit was a short order.



The Tails i´ve been involved with, most of them, have shown wear to the lids fulcrum point - or bearing point if you wish. Stock diameter of the pin is 0,1" (approx 2,5mm) and the holes have often worn oval over time. Thus i handle this the simplest way there is, i just redrill the thing to 3mm flat and use the shank of a 3mm drill bit as the new pin for it.
This way i get a hardened pin .. tried and trued. Indeed the thing works WAY better after this stunt has been pulled.

That said i spent a little time redoing the few "repairs" as far as cracks on the stock. Some idiot had done this using contact cement!  {:(
No more. Now we´re talking 2 comp epoxy with sanding dust..

However.  Checked the chamber of it and it indeed is on the money with the other 25,5" barrel one up above here. Thus i´ve cut quite a few papers to become cartridges and will handle that come tomorrow with any luck. Cause see..it´s time to go let these two rip..  (?^ &j(
For the 20" carbine here though i´m giving serious thought to just use T7 as propellant. This for the simple reason that T7 burns out way faster than regular black, why i hope this´ll hand us better performance out of the thing.
We´ll know soon enough, that much is for sure.
DVC - 2020