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Author Topic: Chassepot Mle 1866  (Read 14281 times)

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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2020, 03:42:20 PM »
There.
The days of A bolt just rattling around that receiver are GONE. Over and done with.
Albeit the parts involved still needs work to fit like the proverbial glove,i´m sure as hell getting there. That knurled bolt handle out of aerospace aluminium included.

Yes,that locking lug will be welded in. Correct,and no..there´s no dangers to that what so ever as long as you know what you´re doing.
Thus the locking lug and the actual bolt are both out of SIS-2241 stainless steel and the weldrod i use is Inconel. So..by all means,TRY to make them separate. I even dare you.
Weld ditches are ample and will thus aid greatly in putting the welds down.

That said we´re closing up on first up manufacture them two nose cones and second of all..the chamber inserts.
TBH i´d really prefer a chamber reamer for 45-120 and 45-90 both,as i tend to end up with either chambering,but these reamers are special order US only...and then it takes me less time,although boring as god knows what,to just turn the chambers with the appropriate cutter on the lathe.
Yes. That will entail a final polish with say 1000 grit paper wet...but..it STILL beats waiting for the appropriate reamer for two months.
Labour intensive? Yeah. I guess you could call it that,then again on the other hand with them two inserts fabbed and done you will be able to basically just forget about them and..enjoy shooting the gun.

True..the use of the 45-120 makes for a rather stout cartridge alright,and many frown upon the 120 due that. Then again,that straight walled piece there CAN be had to make room for wads,grease cookies and what not and STILL be able to hold say 90 grains of powder WITH the boolit seated in a manner where we guarantee conformity.
DVC - 2020

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2020, 09:37:48 PM »
Stunning machine work! I wish I lived closer......I'd love to watch you do all this stuff.
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline prof marvel

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2020, 02:10:01 AM »

TBH i´d really prefer a chamber reamer for 45-120 and 45-90 both,as i tend to end up with either chambering,but these reamers are special order US only...

My Dear Racing
Have you considered making your own D-Reamer ( aka D-bit ) chamber reamer?
I realize it will only have a single cutting edge, but still ....

if you need dimensions, I may have saved some...

yhs
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Offline Len

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2020, 10:10:23 AM »
Stunning machine work! I wish I lived closer......I'd love to watch you do all this stuff.
It's not all that far, just about a 12 hrs flight.

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2020, 07:41:32 PM »
Thx guys.

Yeah well,i guess i won´t be stretching all that much if i claim that from tonight i´ve got one of the worlds very very few Chassepot with an Anschutz match trigger group.  {_K )L$

See..have bridgeport,will travel... LOL

This thing´s adjustable out the rear. Only thing is,placement of it makes for that i need to refab the piece of the rib the actual trigger bolts to.
It´s simply to short and places the trigger way to forward to fit the OEM Chassepot placement,so need to look into that.
Yeah,that and inlet the stock for the piece of course.

One thing at a time however....

DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2020, 04:57:21 PM »
Yeah..on that note.  )L$

Seeing that 90deg "lockup" of the bolt is completely pointless i´ve arrived on that 55 deg should do it. Doing so that of course hands us that the bolt needs to come to a positive rest.
At first i gave thought to just a couple of adjustable stop screws bolted into the recess of the receiver but..hey.
So i turned a sorts of "fill in" instead.

Now. These guns lacks any "real" positive stop for the bolt. Not good,so what i have in mind is to drill and set a semi powerful spring and a steel ball into the framework for the bolt lock to work on.
Thus creating a repeatable platform for the bolt to work from. Of course with a matching detent cut into the actual bolt itself.
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2020, 07:04:26 PM »
Ah.
We´re getting somewhere.
Now,mind you...this is made out of SIS-2241 steel. Iow semi high end stuff..WAY WAY WAY WAY stronger than the cast steel stock bits.

Tolerances are kept not exactly to a bare minimum but..close at least.
Thing is,as i´m reusing the receiver/housing from the stocker i´ve come to realize that the various measurements ain´t exactly all that. To be fair though,1869...how much can one ask?
Thus,i´ve had to make more than one roundtrip to both the lathe and the mill,ending up with pieces that are "compensated" like all over the map. (Mind you,in relative terms. Us boys that work with metals normally feel that 1/100 of a millimeter is a damn landslide...(which is what? 4/1000 of an inch?)
Be that as it may,all well that ends well.

But. At last,here we are. Gone is the *rickety-klong-rack* rattling sound of the original..replaced by *clickety clack*.
TBH i´d much rather have redone the whole thing from scratch but..seeing legislation around here that´s a no can do.

The mere concept of applying for a permit for an antique gun that is exempt as you´ve made imperative parts fresh... I know..i know..moronic,which is why i don´t wanna go there. Peculiar thing there is that there´s no boundries within the law as far as modifying an antique. Why..there´s a since like forever ongoing debate around here as far as where that limit´s at.
Thus it is imperative that the bolt still retains at least some stock parts (or direct replacement such),and indeed this piece of course does.

But..some of you will nod as i state that..some times during a build you just get a "feel" for that the net result will end up where intended.
Which sure is the case here.

As we´re playing around with blackpowder after all the limits set are rather on the low side. Steels used by me so far are overkill beyond belief...

True is that anything i can do to increase repeatability is of use however...
Indeed the bolt fits way way way more snug now,not even on the same map anymore. At that i´ve added that small piece that elevates the "bottoming out" of the bolt so the bolt now moves a mere 55deg vs stock 90deg.
For various reasons really,one of them being the install of glass as even as i´ve moved the actual bolt handle from the approx mid ship of the bolt to the utmost rear it will STILL interfere if let to move around more than needed (read- 90 deg).

Be aware that this is a single shot,and therein lies sort of a problem. I intend to use cartridges of approx 45-120 size. Just not gastight such,as that would be against the law. Or more to the point move the gun from being permit exempt to becoming an under permit gun.
However,cartridges of 45-120 proportions ARE rather long why that window/cutout in the receiver..i sincerly doubt that will cope for cartridges that size.
So.
How to load the gun then? What i´m giving thought to ATM is a very simple setup,as i literally insert the cartridge rim into a recessed cutout at the absolute front of the separate bolt nose i plan for a setup where the entire bolt is removed between shots. Slow? Indeed,but then again the intent here is a long range "sleeper". Ie;reloading speed is of no essence what so ever...

Two replaceable chambers. One of OEM specs and then one to take this "wildcat" 45-120 developed by me merely for this gun and the other Chassepot i´ve got,the one with the GRS stock. Walking the line? Nah,not really. Law is chrystal clear...

None of that is written in stone yet though. I physically need to drill out the chamber insert in there and turn the insert in case to see where it´ll take me all said and done. Clearances involved are on the fabled IF i get away with chambering in the normal manner...

Innards of the bolt has been drilled out and all that. Now to fab a hammer-firing pin fixture/holder for it. Last time out,the mockup i did,i used aluminium for faster shutter speed,and i believe i will this time out too. Just out of Alumec,a material on par with titanium approx.
In that manner i get a hammer hard enough to withstand abuse and light enough to improve shutter speed. All plus-s in my book.

As the cartridge to the letter will be inserted into a recess at the front of the bolt that means that i´ve got extraction covered as well. Seeing that a spent cartridge is way shorter than a loaded one..getting the thing out of there strikes at least me as a simpler proposal than chambering the thing in the first place.

Bolt fits tightly,happy with that. One more thing i´m gonna do tho is add a detent,a stiff spring and steel ball. This to index the bolt,so it closes up in exactly the same spot over and over...reasoning as such that repeatability is everything in this game. A small hole,said steel ball and spring..a small drilled "spot" on the bolt and done deal.

The nose pieces then? The two.. The stock deal uses a rubber obturator,which is out. Any and all movement is bad and the stock setup NEEDS to move to seal. So..no can do in this case.
Steels involved are of Q enough to be machined to a high shine surface. What we call "R-a". The measurement for surface finish.
I´ve tried to measure the part of the barrel where sealing is intended to happen and still have to hand it to Alphonse Chassepot the downright genius of using a rubber obturator. It brings that the demands as far as ovality,koncentricity and so on can be kept to an absolute minimum,the thing will seal up no matter...
However. Year 2020 and things have certainly changed since 1869. So what i´m going to do is drill that entire enchillada out of there on the lathe.
Of course being anal about centering the piece first,that from a pin turned to size inserted into the actual rifling..and a dial indicator.
Then..20mm innards.
That means that the new chamber inserts will set the stage as far as sealing surface,for both nose cones. Great,as these days turning something to WAY closer tolerances than they did back in 1869 you can about do blindfolded...
Thus the inserts,as they will be removable,will be glued in place (as i´ve done many a time by now) by regular Loctite "cylindrical fastening". Inserts being out of higher end steel..might be they "swell" some under load,what do i know,but if so it sure won´t be by much. Again..blackpowder.

Seals then. After having looked high n low the solution was under my nose the entire time. Seals for the turbine side of turbochargers just happens to be about on par dimension wise.
Two of those in series will certainly do the trick. Now. Be aware that as was that sealing "room"/compartment of the barrel was anything BUT round and straight cylinder..but as it will become we can keep tolerances WAY down - even by modern standards.

I talked this idea over with a couple of old friends from the university and we all agreed that most likely them sealing "piston rings" could just as well be made out of high end plastics instead.
Point here being that a "piston ring" seals as tolerances are kept to a minimum. Pressure will force the ring rearwards and pressure will "creep" between the sealing ring and the piston,thereby applying pressure on the ring from the inside out - towards the chamber and thus make sealing take place.
This plastics can sure do as well as cast rings will. Buuuut..call me anal but i´m going to stick to the cast rings regardless. At least for now.

Can/will this impose an issue seeing we´re into the use of blackpowder and due that soot? You tell me.. The actual nose piece/piston will keep the dimensions of the bolt,which is 18,35mm diameter and i guess i´ll set the diameter at the barrel end at 18,40mm leaving a 5/100 of a millimeter clearance. Will this be an issue?
Well,if it is the steel involved will work as a damn cheese grader regardless so.. The piston rings will in short lead a rather easy life if i´m right.

Add to this the effect of the grease used with blackpowder involved and i´d say this is just a positive.

Well well friends....time for the next step shortly i guess  }), )L$
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 07:14:40 PM by Racing »
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2020, 05:31:23 AM »
Altho just "scrub milled",nevermind that.
The weldbung up front is the deal here. Stock these guns rely on one bolt utmost rear and then the barrel bands.
By installing that M6 weldbung i´ve set it up so that the reciever can now be bolted down as intended,and thus set the barrel up free floating.
Name of the game here is accuracy after all...

The Anschutz trigger SURE took some major inletting. That done i was left with the "issue" of that the trigger ended up a few millimeters more forward vs stock.
Simple remedy,move the trigger guard. Said n done...
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2020, 10:51:58 AM »
Now,PLEASE be adviced that this is a work in progress.
Final finish is anything BUT thus far. Share the pics as i figure they might be of interest anyhow.

First up.
That´s the remnants of that chamber insert som moron had installed. As one centers the barrel on the lathe you of course do so by turning a rod first that installs on the actual rifling as the rifling is the point of center for the entire schabang.
Well. Who ever made that insert had certainly not,as evident. So god help me...

I´ve turned two new chamber inserts. One with stock dimensions and another for use with NON gastight cartridges.

I´ve installed a weld bung to the receiver and through that get the poss to free float the barrel. As barrel whip is certainly present this is all a deliberate thought and act.
So..sanded away at the barrel channel until i could slip a Swedish 100 crown bill through there with an ever so slight leeway.

Turning the new chambers and bolts..high end steel cuts so nice it´s downright stoopid.. Ready for install fresh out of the lathe TBH.

Then..the concept of the final idea. Still needs work of course,and what´s more two slots cut for the piston rings to use,to seal the chamber and thus staying with the parameters of the law.
As you know i´ve given thought to an extra pair of locking lugs up front but to be honest it´s all "come in" at such a degree that extra lugs..i´m starting to doubt the value of such.
Play of the bolt and what not is absolute on par and about as close as you can get it. In other words,seeing the length of the bolt and the absolute minimal radial play here coupled with the pressures aso involved with blackpowder..i´m sincerly starting to doubt the value of added lugs.

As is though i´ve gotten the threads of the barrel and receiver to a point where they install very very smooth to each other. Ie;need be it´ll be an issue of its own down road,and there´s nothing really keeping me or making for "added issues" doing so.
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2020, 04:37:39 PM »
...aaaaaaaaaand we´re getting somewhere.
Visited one of our local turbo vendors today and picked up a few different sealing rings for the turbine side of the shaft on turbos. One of them turned out to be about MADE for the purpose of sealing a piston on a Chassepot! {L*

I modified a cutter to hand me exactly what i wanted as far as the cutout for the rings,and..lo n behold. 1,605mm wide and 1,1mm deep was just what the Dr ordered.

That done i´ve put some time into adressing the actual chambers,and the one of them is now done. Needs polishing,but done.
Idea here is three fold as is.

One chamber to use the absolute "bottom end" of a 45 cartridge,basically just as a holder/anvil for a regular primer and that´s it. Remember the law of ours,no gastight cartridges....
The actual "cartridge" will be the same jumbo straws per previously,glued to the brass bottom "holder" and done deal. Measurements i´ve taken from the 45-120 cartridge,and this to have ample room for wads,cards,grease cookies,filler and what not INCLUDING set height of boolit per hearts desire.
In essence a 45-120 cartridge of sorts if you wish,just mainly made out of plastics.
The forcing cone btw has already been cut into the rifling of the barrel per se....have that insane forcing cone of the original setup in mind as we push forward...

Next up is the stock chamber. Or more to the point a cut replica of the stock chamber,more or less. Including that absolutely insane stock forcing cone setup that has presented SO much issues as far as soot..
Thing is,having cut things the way i have i´m still at full liberty either using the stock "umbrella" setup with an obturating rubber disc OR a similar looking piece out of solid steel.
Ie;either a solution where the "bottom end" of the chamber collapses to part OR a ditto solution that stands fast so to say.
The latter then sealed per above,with a pair of sealing piston rings.

Have played around with the parts involved over the day and in short we´re all good and ready to go. So..as i´ve thus far basically just put the various parts together as mockup,for proof of concept,i guess i´ve arrived on the point where it´s time to install the parts in a more "forever home" kind of manner.  {+*

I´ve actually cut a set of rings out of acetal plastics too,but..having them in hand,installing them and playing around with the setup.. My money´s on the cast piston rings/turbo seals.

Be that as it may i´m sure closing up on a viable solution. So..mockup might be,and i´ll keep it that way just a tad longer...see,next step is the setup for the hammer and all that´s involved.

For striker i´ll be using a TIG electrode of 2,4mm dia. Or..several actually as they´ll need to be of slightly different lengths depending on what actual setup is installed for the day.

The stock bolt and receiver of these guns are REALLY sloppy as far as fit...which is all gone now. Thus i want to figure out a neat solution as far as the sear n hammer. Tight and more than anything,repeatable.

Got a few ideas i wanna play with...we´ll see where it all ends up. For sure though the manual safety of the Anschutz trigger group will no doubt be an asset,but that atop seeing the VASTLY diminished clearances of the bolt i also plan to install a pin and cut a track for said pin so that the hammer CAN NOT drop under any circumstance intil the action is 100% closed.
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2020, 02:16:54 PM »
As i effed up on the length of both chambers,had to turn a couple of fresh ones.

For the win i guess. Well,now they´re done at least and fit like a GLOVE.  )L$
DVC - 2020

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2020, 05:11:59 PM »
That is almost like winning the lottery!
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2020, 05:58:36 PM »
 )L$ )L$
LOL.
Yeah,i guess to an extent!

I´ve come to the point where i need to figure the entire hammer setup out. Safety being a major consideration here.
The trigger group,the Anschutz one,added a manual safety which is all good n dandy,and the MAJOR decrease in play all over as far as the bolt itself sure helps too...
But that atop i want to add a "upon battery only" safety too. Thus i´m giving thought to a "floating" hardened pin and recess.

As in,the hammer can´t physically move forward until the pin and recess line up,and we´ll make sure this can not happen before the locking lug is physically in place.
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2020, 05:57:49 AM »
Guys.
Don´t get me wrong,i´m no stranger to recoil.
But.
Head for the range and fire 10 rounds in 45-120 is one thing. Firing 100 rounds in a day is a different matter.



Due that i decided on a small comp that i get to "blend in" with the rest of the rifle. Ie;i´ll cut it in such a manner that it´ll look like it "grew" there.
Bought one ready made as there´s no way in hell i can produce that there at the rate of approx 25$.
Made for 5,56 cal...and sporting a 1/2"-28 thread. Both are of course out.

I figure as such that i´ll cut the thread needed and then bore the thing out after having centered the barrel on its rifling. Cutting the hole to approx 11,7mm.

That done i plan for a cheek piece out of leather that straps around the butt of the rifle,and in turn some sort of limb saver out back - ditto (Read-out of leather)
DVC - 2020

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2020, 04:00:04 PM »
Rigt guys.
I´m by now means a stranger to recoil and nor am i recoil sensitive - at all.
That being said there´s still of course a reasonable measure to this as well,why i´ve opted to run a muzzle brake this time out.







5/8"-24 does it.. Idea upcoming here is to "blend" the install as far as poss. Will "bury" the thing in wet coffee sump to induce rust and hopefully this will make the thing "go away" in an at least reasonable manner.

..and..pushing forwards with this project  &j(
DVC - 2020