The 1858 Remington Forum

Other Black Powder Firearms => "Brand-X" => 'Other' => Topic started by: outlan22 on June 08, 2014, 04:21:23 PM

Title: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on June 08, 2014, 04:21:23 PM
Does anyone happen to know the time frame when they stopped using the word "PATENTEE" and switched to "PATENED" on the Cooper Pepperbox's ? I recently acquired one in trade and have only been able to locate two others with that wording. If somebody could point me in the right direction to locate more info , it would be greatly appreciated.
Chris
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/outlan22/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204025.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/outlan22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204025.jpg.html)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/outlan22/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204530.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/outlan22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204530.jpg.html)(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/outlan22/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204044.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/outlan22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140610_204044.jpg.html)
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: Pat/Rick on June 15, 2014, 08:12:13 PM
No idea about the date's but thanks for showing that way neat pepperbox!
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on June 17, 2014, 10:06:30 PM
Pic's are always good.  {?|   Am surprised though how hard it is to find out info on this makers pepperbox's. Starting to think I might have to see about contacting a museum some where.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: mazo kid on June 24, 2014, 01:26:48 PM
I don't know the answer to your question, but what I have found is that Cooper was active from 1840 to 1853.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on June 24, 2014, 07:53:51 PM
Hi mazo kid,
His business also carried on under Cooper & Goodman till 1886. He did receive his patent for his pepprrbox in 1843 I belive. Have sent an inquiry to the NRA National Firearms Museum for any information that they might be able to provide as my Internet searches have come up wanting. Hopefully they will have better access to information sources. Will post what info I receive.  Would also like to locate a source of # 11 nipples with a #10 by 32 thread. That's been another hard search.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on June 26, 2014, 06:11:27 AM
Just received an email reply from Mr.Dave Evans , Curator for the Birmingham Proof House Museum in regards to the patent dates for the Cooper Pepperbox's. He was able to inform me of the Original Application dates of 1837, 1838 (German application) and 1838. As well as a invitation to meet with him to review those documents. Sadly I am nowhere near England to take up the offer. So far have been able to narrow down the time frame to 1837 to 1843'ish.(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/outlan22/Mobile%20Uploads/20140622_212400_resized.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/outlan22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140622_212400_resized.jpg.html)(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/outlan22/Mobile%20Uploads/20140622_212325_resized.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/outlan22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140622_212325_resized.jpg.html)
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: mike116 on June 26, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
Been watching this thread.  I have nothing to contribute except to say...   that is one cool old pistol. 
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on June 27, 2014, 07:40:08 PM
Thanks Mike. It has fast become one of my favorites in my small collection. The only down side to this piece is that all the original nipples have been replaced. Am thinking that I have gotten as close as I am able to get with dating it though.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on July 25, 2014, 08:21:31 PM
Well,, looks like the best I can do with dating this piece is to say the manufacturing date is between 1843 and 1845 to error on the newer side then older. As for replacement nipples , I did manage to make a few out of 10 x 32 cap head screws. Once I save some coin I might get replicate set made from a company overseas , some what pricey though.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: Mad Dog Stafford on July 26, 2014, 06:52:42 AM
What caliber is this gun?
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on July 26, 2014, 12:26:21 PM
Hi Mad Dog. This is a 32 cal pepperbox . Any chance of being able to add to the possible time frame when they switched the wording from patentee to patented. Or possible other avenues I can look in for more information?
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: Mad Dog Stafford on July 28, 2014, 08:29:17 AM
Oh a .32? I wonder if it's really bigger of caliber like, the Remmy or Colt in .36 which is really a .38 size.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on July 28, 2014, 03:48:15 PM
Sorry about that, my bad. I should have looked twice before hitting send. Yes it is 36 cal, using a .35 cal patched round ball.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on December 03, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
Just a quick update of my search,
Well after sending out a few quires I was able to get the following information courtesy of Mr. John Spangler.

Cooper was granted British patents 7610, 8347 and 12,781 between 1838 and 1849

Now to try and see if I can find an image of those to compare and maybe get a closer possibility of manufacturing time frame, that and locate a source that will not break the bank to get replacement npipes made up for it.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: Classanr on December 03, 2014, 02:09:48 PM
Please forgive my ignorance.
  Is that pepperbox an underhammer that smacks the side of the cap?
  How does the action of this device actually shoot?

Here are similar JR Cooper works, and they all puzzle me.
(http://images1.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2006-02/17/94245333-3-1.jpg&width=640&height=480&halign=l0&valign=t0&autosizefit=1)
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: outlan22 on December 03, 2014, 05:37:27 PM
Hi Classanr ,
Yes it is a underhammer firing system. It is a double action, as you pull the ring trigger back it will retract the hammer , rotate the barrel cluster and then releases the hammer to impact the percussion cap directly on top. The hammer moves back and forth in line with the barrel. This fires the barrel positioned at the bottom center of the cluster. Makes aiming some what of a " by guess and by golly ". I personally think that this is a better system then most of the American pepperbox's that have the cap sitting on the nipple at a 90' angle to the barrel. With it directly in line with the barrel , the spent caps will fall free instead of possibly falling down and jamming the mechanism.
Title: Re: J.R.Cooper Pepperbox (Now with pics)
Post by: Classanr on December 03, 2014, 07:02:00 PM
Very interesting.  Now you have me looking up these for sale.
And here I am trying to divest myself.