The 1858 Remington Forum

Other Black Powder Firearms => La Longue Carabine => Scatterguns => Topic started by: mazo kid on July 11, 2013, 05:32:48 PM

Title: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 11, 2013, 05:32:48 PM
I don't think I have posted this gun on "show and tell" before. This is my 1887 Winchester lever action shotgun, and I just think there is a natural beauty about it.  Here is the left side of the action.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester002_zps4f47026a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester002_zps4f47026a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 11, 2013, 05:34:42 PM
Full view of right side.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester001_zpse660402c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester001_zpse660402c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 11, 2013, 05:35:24 PM
And the hammer.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester004_zps915b0758.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester004_zps915b0758.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Classanr on July 11, 2013, 05:37:55 PM
A beauty!
Well-kept.
Is that a choke at the muzzle?  - EDIT: No, now I see it's an optical illusion cast by shadow.
Looks like it was build as a birding gun.

Classanr
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 11, 2013, 05:40:20 PM
Here is the action cocked.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester_zps4d83ca74.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester_zps4d83ca74.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Hawg on July 11, 2013, 05:43:44 PM
I have one of those. (T^

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/CAS/Casguns014.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/rebel727/media/CAS/Casguns014.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: sltm1 on July 11, 2013, 07:29:27 PM
That is sweet!! I had  a chance to buy one years before I came to admire the beauty of old weapons, could kikck myself now.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Wolfgang on July 11, 2013, 08:57:46 PM
I read a good book a while back about Browning.   He didn't have any desire to design a lever action shotgun.  But the Winchester people insisted.  So he did.   What a fantastic designer !   And he designed a whole bunch of guns that have never been produced.  Winchester would buy the designs so that no one else could get them.  And then never produce them.  Amazing.   :)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 12, 2013, 09:07:26 AM
Wolfgang, I have heard that story also. Ol' John was a gun designing genius!
Hawg, have you shot yours? 10 or 12 gauge? Mine are both 12 ga.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 12, 2013, 09:14:07 AM
I also have another '87; this one needs some work. It's missing the butt stock and hammer spring. Another project!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester006_zps9835c964.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester006_zps9835c964.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 12, 2013, 09:27:54 AM
The second gun has an unusual rear sight; don't think it is original. Instead of just the narrow groove in the receiver top, this has brass "ears" on top of the breech block, obviously for a rear sight. It also has a drilled and tapped hole in the tang which has a filler screw, probably for a tang sight. This must have been a hunting gun, possibly with slugs?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/87Winchester008_zpsdf24fe26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/87Winchester008_zpsdf24fe26.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Hawg on July 12, 2013, 10:28:13 AM
Numrich has a semi finished stock.  https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/764080.htm
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 12, 2013, 11:13:46 AM
Thanks for the info. Since I have lots of walnut, I think I will try to make my own; if that falls short then maybe go the replacement route. Since it has the butt cut for the factory butt plate (which I don't have) I am hesitant to invest that much money for now. I do have several different shot gun butt plates, but no Winchester ones that I know of.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 12, 2013, 07:14:58 PM
RE: the "drilled and tapped hole in the tang maybe for a tang sight".... on further examination, my other gun has the same screw and it isn't for a tang sight.....it holds the trigger spring! I found a couple of sources for the hammer spring, but dang! They aren't cheap!
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Kaeto on July 13, 2013, 05:57:03 AM
If you need an un inletted stock Mazo I've got one here that's unfinished.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 13, 2013, 09:23:35 AM
How "un-inletted" and what are you asking? PM or email me (email address on my profile). Picture? Thanks
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Kaeto on July 13, 2013, 12:18:43 PM
(http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p565/kaeto3/DCP_0203_zpsfca7b03d.jpg)

(http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p565/kaeto3/DCP_0204_zps084980a8.jpg)

(http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p565/kaeto3/DCP_0205_zps6b228a55.jpg)

It says 'Made in Belgium' on it. It's rough surfaced so you could smooth it as much as you want.  As for price How about $30.00 shipped?
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 13, 2013, 05:06:33 PM
Any idea as to what the wood is? I would like walnut to match the rest of the gun. Thanks.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Kaeto on July 13, 2013, 05:47:31 PM
No Idea what kind of wood.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Wolfgang on July 13, 2013, 06:00:13 PM
Wolfgang, I have heard that story also. Ol' John was a gun designing genius!
Hawg, have you shot yours? 10 or 12 gauge? Mine are both 12 ga.

I don't have a lever shotgun.   I do have 5 double barreled.  All old and 4 shootable with loads.  Have shot 'em all a lot.  All 12 ga.  The fifth has very pitted Damascus barrels and only used for blanks.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Hawg on July 13, 2013, 06:24:04 PM
Yes I have. I grew up hunting with it using 2 3/4 smokeless loads. Once accidentally fired a three inch magnum out of it. But that was when I didn't know any better. I just load bp in it now. I think last count I had 7 doubles. One made around 1850. I shoot them all.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 13, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
I haven't shot mine yet. I did clean them both today, 0000 steel wool and oil. Amazing how much better they look. I tried loading an empty brass shell in the one needing work (1888); it wouldn't feed from the magazine.  When put manually in the chamber, it wouldn't extract. The "newer" one (1897) fed, chambered, and extracted OK. Now I need to load some black powder loads as I have several brass shells. Hawg, I'm surprised those longer shells would chamber, supposed to be chambered for 2-5/8" shells. My brass shells are mostly 2-1/2", a few 2-5/8' and 2-3/4".
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 20, 2013, 02:04:07 PM
I was looking in Chicoine's book and he does say it is a strong action. Does yours have a single or double extractor? My complete shotgun has the later double extractors and functions great. The one needing work (2nd year production) has a single extractor and doesn't seem to want to pull the shell out of the chamber. I need to look at it more closely, maybe clean the chamber up.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Hawg on July 20, 2013, 02:20:24 PM
I haven't shot mine yet. I did clean them both today, 0000 steel wool and oil. Amazing how much better they look. I tried loading an empty brass shell in the one needing work (1888); it wouldn't feed from the magazine.  When put manually in the chamber, it wouldn't extract. The "newer" one (1897) fed, chambered, and extracted OK. Now I need to load some black powder loads as I have several brass shells. Hawg, I'm surprised those longer shells would chamber, supposed to be chambered for 2-5/8" shells. My brass shells are mostly 2-1/2", a few 2-5/8' and 2-3/4".

Mine has double extractors, made in 98 or 99. been awhile since I looked it up and got so many I can never keep the years straight on which is which. Shotgun shells are measured fired so a 2 3/4 and even a 3 inch will chamber just fine but when they're fired the crimp opens up over the forcing cone and raises breech pressure. Mine has been fired hundreds if not thousands of times with 2 3/4 smokeless shells. Guess it was a good thing I didn't know any better at the time.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 21, 2013, 10:15:52 AM
Again, you have taught me something new! I didn't realize that shot shells were measured in the fired condition. My two '87s are '88 and '97 manufacture dates.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Classanr on July 21, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Again, you have taught me something new! I didn't realize that shot shells were measured in the fired condition. My two '87s are '88 and '97 manufacture dates.

I have heard success stories (and no failures) by people cutting the roll crip off a 3" shell and gluing the slug back in.  Same unfired over-all length, but now (apparently, I have never tried this with a pressure gauge system to measure true results) safe to fire in 2+3/4 chambers.

And a 3" cut shot shell will fire in a 2+3/4 because the top of the shell becomes a "slug" and does not open.  Unless it is a poorly-assembled reload, then all heck breaks loose, or it becomes "safe" only because it negligently was a squib load.

However, the operator must first consider the increased pressure of the higher load brought to the table by the 3".  Many older 2+3/4 chambers were not intended to suffer the increased powder charge of a 3", and many have very steep forcing cones.

Classanr
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Hawg on July 21, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
Many older 2+3/4 chambers were not intended to suffer the increased powder charge of a 3", and many have very steep forcing cones.

Classanr

The 3 inch has the same powder charge as a 2 3/4 but has an increased shot charge.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Classanr on July 21, 2013, 02:21:34 PM
Many older 2+3/4 chambers were not intended to suffer the increased powder charge of a 3", and many have very steep forcing cones.

Classanr

The 3 inch has the same powder charge as a 2 3/4 but has an increased shot charge.

Ah, yes, most factory shells are like that.  I keep forgetting that I do things a bit differently ;D.
Let me rephrase my cautionary statement: "... suffer the increased pressure of a 3"
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: Len on July 21, 2013, 03:05:07 PM
Any idea as to what the wood is? I would like walnut to match the rest of the gun. Thanks.
Just making an educated guess: The twig marks and the fairly light color suggests sapin. Now sapin isn't a likely choice for butts, so maybe alder tree would be nearer.
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on July 22, 2013, 12:26:00 PM
I have a blank sawed out of walnut now. I tried contacting a fellow who does a great job with stocks; but he says he no longer makes anything for the '87 Win. Too bad!  :'(
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: old fogey on February 15, 2016, 10:36:53 PM
Mazo, sorry it took so long to find this page! If you're still peeping around trying to find parts for your '87 might want to look here (http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Winchester-33573/Shotguns-42603/1887-41804.htm) (no hammer springs, but have unfinished stock and buttplate)!
Title: Re: Lever action shotgun
Post by: mazo kid on February 16, 2016, 08:21:48 PM
Thanks,  I am aware of the company. Just haven't returned to the project due to other stuff.