The 1858 Remington Forum

General Black Powder Discussions => Gunsmithing/Tuning/Parts & Repairs => Topic started by: Acrobat on June 06, 2020, 06:11:18 PM

Title: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Acrobat on June 06, 2020, 06:11:18 PM
I have an 1858 Italian clone with no manufacturer marks and a bolt that won’t retract as you cock the hammer. I bought this gun cheap at a gun show knowing there was something causing it to have the worst cylinder drag line I’ve ever seen.  The gun is unfired, has Italian PN marks on the frame and cylinder along with a Provisional Proof from Gardon. It has a case colored frame with a blue cylinder and barrel and a serial number on the butt (070450). The metal has been heavily buffed, leaving only the words “For Black Powder Only – Made in Italy” barely visible along the right side of the barrel.

I thought that the bolt problem might be related to the hammer notches (which looked a bit flattened) so I tried a Pieta hammer but it was much too thick to fit in the frame and an Umberti bolt was all wrong. Since the gun appears to be an orphan, I’m guessing from the forum that much of the problem could be with the trigger/bolt spring. An early post had info link for tuning this but it’s no longer working. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Hawg on June 06, 2020, 06:59:32 PM
It could be the cam on the hammer is worn down or the bolt leg that rides on it is bent away from it.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: mazo kid on June 06, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
I agree, if the bolt is not retracting it would cause the drag line. Try bending the bolt leg a bit to see if that helps. If not, you may have to replace the cam.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: 45 Dragoon on June 07, 2020, 04:37:17 AM
Actually, the cam needs to be removed and clocked (rotated) 90 deg. (1/4 turn) clockwise. For whatever reason, it is installed  wrong.  Fortunately, there is basically no wear since the bolt and the cam have no idea that either exist!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Hawg on June 07, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
Actually, the cam needs to be removed and clocked (rotated) 90 deg. (1/4 turn) clockwise. For whatever reason, it is installed  wrong.  Fortunately, there is basically no wear since the bolt and the cam have no idea that either exist!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

You've got a good eye for details. I never even thought about that.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: 45 Dragoon on June 07, 2020, 02:42:29 PM
Lol!! Just lookin out for ya Hawgie .  .  .  !  )L$

Mike
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: mazo kid on June 07, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
I never gave the positioning a thought. Shows the difference a trained eye can make. M__
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Hawg on June 07, 2020, 04:20:13 PM
Lol!! Just lookin out for ya Hawgie .  .  .  !  )L$

Mike

Somebody needs to. (T^
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: 45 Dragoon on June 07, 2020, 05:08:11 PM


Somebody needs to. (T^
[/quote]

  Lol!!!

Thanks Mazo!!

Mike
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Acrobat on June 15, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
Hi guys. I couldn’t respond sooner due to some medical issues but appreciate your comments.

First, in case it isn’t obvious and as otherwise noted there is no wear on any of the parts (except the turn line). This gun has never been loaded or fired. These guns are new to me but seem very simple and that may be my problem. I’ve seen a dozen You Tubes of these things taken apart and reassembled and  have followed them closely but cannot see anything I’ve missed. 

45 Dragoon’s comment about the cam seems on target but clocking the cam 90 degrees needs more explanation or a visual to help my old brain along.

kurt
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: AntiqueSledMan on June 15, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
Hello Acrobat,

I googled a picture of a hammer, I believe you would press the cam out, turn it & press it back in.

AntiqueSledMan.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Acrobat on June 15, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
Wow, 45 Dragoon, that's a great catch and one I would have never figured out on my own. Since I no longer have a press, I'll have to ask around a bit. I'd be tempted to just buy a replacement hammer but a Pieta hammer was way too thick for the frame. Would the Umberti hammer be thinner?
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: 45 Dragoon on June 15, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Just send the hammer to me and I would be glad to "clock"  it for you!!

Mike

www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me at @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Acrobat on July 06, 2020, 07:54:28 AM
A huge THANK-YOU to 45 Dragoon for his sharp eye and generous offer.  I mailed the hammer to Mike and got it back with the cam properly aligned but also with the contact surfaces polished for a nice smooth trigger pull. I was hoping to shoot it last week but got too busy and hope to squeeze it in this week. I'll report later.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: hawkeye2 on August 10, 2020, 10:22:47 PM
Euroarms/Armi San Palo is the only manufacturer I know of who made a Remington repro without barrel threads exposed at the back.  You can fit a Pietta hammer to the gun though you don't need to now.  I have one that has a new Pietta hammer in it.  Sand the left side down on a belt sander till it fits.  I've got another that needs a new hammer and it'll get the same repair.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Gimlet on November 10, 2020, 06:53:14 AM
I had a timing problem with the new hammer I got from Pieta recently, the bolt would drop as the hammer started back but would pop back up and lock the cylinder again before it reach half cock.
I sent the supplier a picture and he sent me a replacement but in the meantime I had fixed the original, which now works better than the replacement new one.
Just look at how different the timing is on the two new hammers.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Captainkirk on November 10, 2020, 11:14:38 AM
I had a timing problem with the new hammer I got from Pieta recently, the bolt would drop as the hammer started back but would pop back up and lock the cylinder again before it reach half cock.
I sent the supplier a picture and he sent me a replacement but in the meantime I had fixed the original, which now works better than the replacement new one.
Just look at how different the timing is on the two new hammers.

It's possible your cam rotated.
Title: Re: No-name 1858 with a bolt problem
Post by: Gimlet on November 10, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
The two hammers in the picture are brand new Pieta spare parts that came sealed in retail packaging.
The one with wear marks only got them from me fitting it and operating it hundreds of times with and without the cylinder installed to try and work out what was happening. :)