The 1858 Remington Forum

1858 Remington Discussions => 1858 Remington Revolvers => Topic started by: Camo on June 18, 2019, 08:56:30 AM

Title: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Camo on June 18, 2019, 08:56:30 AM
Hi and Good morning, went to my first cowboy shoot with my two remys the older of the two picks today to act up. when cocking the hammer the cylinder may or may not rotate. This gun has about a 1000 or more rounds through it and is completely stripped and cleaned every time, I am thinking the hand attached to the hammer is the issue, but before I go off wasting $$$ thought I would ask for help. Second would I just buy a parts kit from Cabela's and change everything? this is a Pietta revolver. Thank you
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Pustic on June 18, 2019, 09:32:27 AM
It sounds like your hand spring is the problem. Get you a new one and replace it and see what that does. If it takes care of the problem, order one or two more as spares.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: mike116 on June 18, 2019, 10:34:12 AM
Yep,  probably the spring.  Point the muzzle to the ground and cycle the revolver.   If the cylinder rotates normally when pointed down but not when held level or pointed up it's almost certain to be the hand spring.   I said ALMOST CERTAIN so nobody can call me out if it turns out to be something else.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Hawg on June 18, 2019, 11:31:30 AM
You can't buy just the spring and hands aren't drop in parts. If you can get the old spring out you can make a new one out of a bobby pin.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on June 18, 2019, 02:23:02 PM
I was told by some folks "in the know" that Remington's weren't any more popular than they already are because of this very problem. You can't do a frame mounted "Ruger hand spring" conversion. So, I developed a conversion for a torsion spring that mounts with the hand onto the hammer. The torsion/coil spring is a lifetime "fix" so folks can run Remies as competition revolvers with confidence!! Of course, the bolt and trigger are coil sprung as well which means the whole action is never going to "let you down" !! One of my SASS customers has had a pair of main match Remington's running for a year and a half with absolutely no problems and they haven't been "taken down" for cleaning during this time (per my instructions).   I call this setup the "Outlaw Mule" because you can treat it like a "rented Mule"  and it'll go tomorrow, next week, next month, next year! It'll show a "heavy" Ruger (and I like Rugers!!) how it's supposed to be done !!! Same as the Open Top Colts but it's a First for the Remington! As far as I know, I'm the first to ever coil spring a Remington action. It was an "eye opener" for me big-time !!!! That includes the '58, '75 and the '90.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Camo on June 18, 2019, 02:33:02 PM
So a manufactures replacement part will take fitting then? Thank you all for helping
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Omnivore on June 18, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
A new hand will likely need fitting.  You'd have to try it and see.  Keep the old one, and if it's not broken (see below) then you can always remove the good spring from the new hand and install it into the old hand.  I've used a steel punch to catch an edge of the old spring nub, enough to rock it out of the hand.  It's kind of a bitch, but I've done it a few times.  then you'll find that the spring has cuts in it at the base, where staking the hand (again with a punch) will hold onto it.  The steel hand is pretty soft, so it's not terribly difficult to work with (makes sense, 'cause it's a far cheeper part than the cylinder, so it'll fail first).

And Yup; Piettas tend to go through hand and bolt springs like hotcakes.  You'd think they'd figure it out.  I've had several of them break, on Pietta Remingtons and Pietta Colts.  The latest was in a Colt Army that had fired no more than about 20 shots. 

Another thing that will occasionally happen is the hand itself will break at that location where it's deeply slotted to accommodate the spring.  One fix I did there was to get a new hand, rip out the original spring, install a better quality flat spring as made for woodwind musical instruments, with a hole punched through the spring, so a screw could be installed through the entire hand and the spring all together, thus clamping the spring slot together.

The original springs are brutally stiff (which is part of why they fail - they're too thick for their length, so they're being stressed more than necessary) and so, if you can, you're probably a lot better off replacing it with a bobbie pin or getting just the right clarinet key flat spring from a musical instrument repair shop.  Make sure, whatever spring you use, that it has a little "ski tip" bend on the very end of it.  the free end of the flat spring needs to slide against the frame, and so it should not "dig" or "bite" into that sliding surface.

I'll usually now take an original spring and gingerly (so as not to over-heat it) thin it out on a grinder or with a Dremel tool, thus lighten the tension, thus saving wear on the gun and making the action a lot nicer while reducing the chances of spring failure.

A hand spring is too light when the cylinder and arbor are nice and clean and lubed and spinning freely, and in that state, the cylinder wants to over-rotate sometimes.  You want some tension on the cylinder ratchet star so as to have some resistance against over-rotation when cocking, but otherwise you don't need such brutal tension like the Italians make them.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Yolla Bolly Brad on June 18, 2019, 07:35:29 PM
I've found that a Uberti hand will drop into a Pietta with only some fitting for timing. The Uberti spring is thinner and has less of a bend where it comes out of the hand, which should make it last longer.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Captainkirk on June 19, 2019, 09:14:53 AM
I've done the bobby pin fix several times and never had a bobby pin break yet. If replacing the hand assembly, nice thing about a Remmy is you can pull the hand off, index the two pieces together using a finish nail through the hand screw hole, then clamp in a soft jaw vise. Then you can profile the new part to match the old fairly quickly and easily with a hand file.
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Hawg on June 19, 2019, 11:12:25 AM
I've done the bobby pin fix several times and never had a bobby pin break yet. If replacing the hand assembly, nice thing about a Remmy is you can pull the hand off, index the two pieces together using a finish nail through the hand screw hole, then clamp in a soft jaw vise. Then you can profile the new part to match the old fairly quickly and easily with a hand file.

That's a good idea. 8)
Title: Re: cylinder skips rotation?
Post by: Camo on June 19, 2019, 04:19:14 PM
well it looks like the bobby pin is the way to go, thanks again for the help I'll keep you posted on the result.