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Author Topic: My New Toy  (Read 3543 times)

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Offline prof marvel

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 12:54:44 AM »
PM; are you encouraging other people to use smokeless powder in their black powder guns, in contravention of all manufacturer warnings, without having done long term tests of your own?

OMG no, My  good Omni -

note that I wrote

>> Note this is NOT a BP sub, merely mild loads.

and I relate this data ONLY with respect to Kirk's BRASS 1866 toggle-link and his SHARPS, both older designs of CARTRIDGE  guns.

I'll go back and highlite that in my first post...

I myself have concerns about using smokeless in my 1866 .45 colt yellowboy replica and a cheap Italian sharps 45-70, and so have been searching for
safe lowpressure stuff.
yhs
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Offline drobs

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 05:17:13 AM »
Nice looking rifle! There's a fella Jed I. Knight on youtube that uses those for Cowboy Action shooting:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1EARpgkTu0PgjA9XICAeLw



Since we're showing off cartridge guns, anyone want to see my newest AR15 pistol?


Kidding.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 07:04:20 AM »
I myself have concerns about using smokeless in my 1866 .45 colt yellowboy replica and a cheap Italian sharps 45-70, and so have been searching for
safe lowpressure stuff.
yhs
prof mumbles

I would have no issue shooting factory smokeless loads in a 66 as they're pretty weak to start with so as not to damage original guns. The only issue I would have with the 66 would be with hotter than factory loads and it wouldn't be because of the action but rather the brass frame. Uberti makes the 73 in 44 mag which is the same action of the 66 but in a steel frame. As for the Italian Sharps, load that puppy up and let her rip. The Italian Sharps come chambered in 45-120 and Hodgdon lists smokeless loads for them. I had an 1884 45-70 trapdoor and I shot a lot of factory Winchester loads out of it before I started reloading with black. The trapdoor action is weaker than the Sharps and modern steel is better than original steel so I personally wouldn't have any problem at all shooting loads equivalent to factory loads out of any Italian gun.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 11:21:24 AM »
I would have no issue shooting factory smokeless loads in a 66 as they're pretty weak to start with so as not to damage original guns. The only issue I would have with the 66 would be with hotter than factory loads and it wouldn't be because of the action but rather the brass frame.

I'm not sure what Factory .44-40 loads would be? I have seen the factory load data for the Winchester 'Cowboy' loads and they are pretty anemic. I have not found any other factory load data on the .44-40 round. If anyone has access I would appreciate seeing the numbers.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 01:16:56 PM »
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline mike116

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 01:20:49 PM »
Here is the page from HSM Ammunition's website that gives energy and velocity for their "cowboy action" line of products.   
https://hsmammunition.com/cowboy-action/

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 01:43:51 PM »
Apparently from what I'm finding online, the .44-40 has been relegated to the cowboy load grouping. I don't think anyone is offering them as standard loaded ammo any more, neither in pistol or rifle designation unless offered as a cowboy load. What a shame.
I have a pretty good indication of what I can do with Unique and 200gr bullet, should be equivalent to the Winchester CL. In fact, I now have Winchester's recipe if I want to use 231 powder.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 06:12:53 PM »
From the link I posted. This Winchester Super-X in 44-40 WCF makes for a great hunting and range training round. This 44-40 WFC round has a 200 grain soft point projectile with a muzzle velocity of 1190 feet per second.
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Offline mike116

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 07:03:25 PM »
The Goex Load chart says 39 grains 3F under a 200gr.  RNFP yields 1180 fps.    Obviously the Winchester Super X is designed to emulate the original BP round.   "Cowboy" loads don't even come close to what 44 WCF should be.

Offline drobs

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 09:25:24 PM »
They're pricey. https://www.luckygunner.com/44-40-wfc-200-grain-sp-winchester-super-x-50-rounds

Those are pricey @ $70 a box.

SG Ammo is my go to bulk ammo dealer and has that same ammo in stock for $60.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/44-40-ammo/50-round-box-44-40-win-200-grain-power-point-soft-point-winchester-ammo-x4440

They also have Magtech Cowboy ammo for $33.95 a box 50 = $0.679rd
https://www.sgammo.com/product/44-40-ammo/50-round-box-44-40-win-225-grain-lead-flat-nose-ammo-magtech-4440b

I'd get the Magtech ammo - blast it at the range and reload it however you want.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 10:19:49 PM »
I wouldn't waste my time or money on cowboy loads. I'd just buy brass and reload from the get go.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2019, 05:37:23 AM »
I've never loaded 44-40, have heard it can be a challenge.
But I agree with Hawg, start from scratch.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Centurion

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2019, 06:05:51 AM »
I've never loaded 44-40, have heard it can be a challenge.
But I agree with Hawg, start from scratch.

AntiqueSledMan.

Have an original 1873 SRC from 1887. Always fired 1100 fps smokeless ammo and never had a problem. With slow burning powders these velocities would be achieved at the end of the barrel lenght with no high pressure spikes at the chamber. But remember such loads will not be that fast from a sixgun.
If I want higher velocities from my carbine I use to load with holly black. Then I could get up to 1400 fps from my old warrior.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 06:26:08 AM by Centurion »

Offline Hawg

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2019, 11:53:29 AM »
I've never loaded 44-40, have heard it can be a challenge.
But I agree with Hawg, start from scratch.

AntiqueSledMan.

Not so much a challenge as a learning experience. The case necks are very thin. The main problem is original 44-40's used .427 bullets and modern 44-40's use .429. Most modern dies size to .427 so when you try to use a .430 cast bullet you crush cases. You can get cowboy dies that size to .429 or you can use a .44 mag expander plug in standard dies.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My New Toy
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2019, 12:34:04 PM »
Gonna do as Hawg suggested and load from the get-go. I'll be using Starline brass, which has thicker necks and is harder. I ordered the RCBS Cowboy dies, we'll see what expander diamer is when I get them. Hard cast 200 gr bullets are readily available in .427, .428 and .429 varieties so I'll find out what bore diameter is when I slug the barrel.
I'm thinking I should be able to get over 1000fps out of a 24" Bbl without exceeding any max loads.
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