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Author Topic: 1858 Gunslingers?  (Read 51731 times)

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Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2015, 09:00:09 PM »
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 11:03:05 AM by G Dog »
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".  
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2015, 02:02:12 AM »
Quote
By this time we were within five or six feet of each other, and I fired with a Remington .45 [this was in 1869, so it had to be a cap and ball .44]

Didn't have to be cap and ball.  Possibly it was a cartridge conversion, of which there were many by then.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

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Offline M9Powell

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2015, 08:52:56 AM »
However bad Custer was,and he truly was a power hungry ambitious megloamanic, John Wesley Hardin was worse, he was a psycho serial killer who learned to love killing.

Offline old fogey

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2015, 09:12:24 AM »
Yeah, not only was John Wesley Hardin a murderin psychopath, he was also a lawyer!

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2015, 09:27:12 AM »
I did hear that John Wesley was a Lawyer before.
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2015, 01:29:39 PM »
Quote
By this time we were within five or six feet of each other, and I fired with a Remington .45 [this was in 1869, so it had to be a cap and ball .44]

Didn't have to be cap and ball.  Possibly it was a cartridge conversion, of which there were many by then.

Remington introduced their first conversion of the 1858 model in 1868 a .46 cal rimfire Army contract and Colt didn't begin producing cartridge conversions until the early 1870s, so there we not many out there in 1869. While on the cattle trail in the early 1870s the only cartridge gun Hardin mentions is a Winchester rifle, all the other cowboys including Hardin himself carried cap and ball revolvers.
 
Throughout his autobiography, Hardin constantly changes calibers of various pistols when writing about the late 1860s, at some points he calls an 1860 Colt Army a .44 and at other times a .45. We know that there were no Colt .45s until 1873.

Offline old fogey

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2015, 01:41:41 PM »
Almost like he knew a .44 is actually @ .452!

Offline M9Powell

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2015, 06:59:16 PM »
 He probably did, just because someone is a murdering psychopath doesn't mean they are stupid. Some geniuses are babbling fools to a normal man, can't even tie their own shoes, but some are diabolical.

Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2015, 08:58:47 PM »
great book though (Thomas Berger) and movie too.  Not a Custer history though.

Dustin Hoffman as Jack Crabb carried a Rem eight inch in that Little Big Man movie.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Little_Big_Man#Remington_Model_1858_Army
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 09:05:46 PM by G Dog »
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".  
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2015, 01:32:06 PM »
Two thumbs up on Thomas Berger's Little Big Man, one of the most authentic and entertaining novels I have ever read on the Old West. Much better than the film version of it.

Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2015, 03:57:26 PM »
Almost like he knew a .44 is actually @ .452!

Or a .429, .430, .434, .44, .404, .412, .414, .405, or a .451, or a .454 or a .457, etc.... {_K

Heck, three of those were used by S&W alone in the .44 S&W American, .44 Russian and .44 Special and Magnum loadings, and nearly half that list has also been referred to as .45 caliber at one point or another.

I would love to know what "caliber" actually holds the record for most bullet diameters. The ".44" and ".45" designations have got to be in the running. I am still placing my bets on ".30" being the one with the most variations, though.

Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2015, 04:18:16 PM »
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee
Yeah, not only was John Wesley Hardin a murderin psychopath, he was also a lawyer!
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 04:35:40 PM by G Dog »
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".  
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2015, 08:36:38 PM »
My late Texas Aunt once had one of Hardin's pistols. Her husband was a gun collector in the 1940s and he had an 1851 Colt Navy .36 that supposedly belonged to Hardin at one time. She sold it in the early 1970s for $500.  :'(

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2015, 10:08:54 PM »
Yes, G...I read my copy of "Wounded Knee" so many times I literally broke the binding on the spine. Dozens of complete reads followed by any number of partials.
And yes, I do agree; back in the 70's it WAS treated as gospel and believed by many. I will admit to being swayed by it in my "Indian" period but Dee Brown was searching for a cause to make him a famous author and, by golly...he found one. M__
My disdain of George Armstrong comes from the opinions of many of the men who served not under Custer, but with him....other officers and troopers not under his command, most who had nothing good to say about the Boy General. A good read for those interested is James Donovan's "A Terrible Glory" which tends to shine a light on GAC that is a little less adoring. )%R
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Offline M9Powell

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2015, 01:47:30 AM »
What rank was he at the time of his death? I know the General rank was only a temporary wartime rank. Didn't he revert to Captain after the civil war?