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Author Topic: Chassepot Mle 1866  (Read 18466 times)

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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2021, 08:39:58 PM »
Once in a blue moon guys, why i want to share this with you.

Cause yet another Chassepot landed in my lap, however a rather rare one.



While the Chassepot was produced, to the letter, by the millions there WERE those that were not and this is one of those. The cavalry carbine.
Or.. carbine. I don´t know. Better maybe to call it a short rifle?



No matter this is one boomstick that was never let go why it´s in REALLY nice condition to this day. The cavalry carbine had all its furniture out of brass, sported a somewhat shorter barrel (25" vs the rifles 28") and in turn lacked the bracketry for a bayonet.

I don´t know the numbers for the cavalry gun but..for the later Gras there were over 3 million produced and a few hundred thou were carbines per the one shown here.
Mind you, the cavalry gun in Chassepot guise was a rather late spawn vs the Gras and what´s more many were converted to Gras so... i suspect at least semi few Chassepot ones are still around.



Well.. almost untouched. I handed it a fresh crown. 150yrs is 150yrs after all.



A beautiful gun it is though. Another such cavalry specific is the turned down bolt handle. This to make sure the handle didn´t hit the horse boys in their backs..





Yep. Rifling in just as nice condition and indeed a "fast" twist to it too. It´s been said they sport a 1:22 but to be honest i´ve for various reason never checked. Need to do that.
45cal. Of course. When slugged they usually come in around the 458-460 mark.



Again. No. Rifle hasn´t been restoed or similar, just cleaned out.



Indeed just as fresh looking. The obturator (rubber disc) is since long gone way passed though as you can imagine. Fabbing a fresh one is a small order the day i feel the gun needs to be shot again so no worries.



Yes. Buttplate out of brass too. Why the cavalry guns got this, no idea. SOME of the similar gendarme guns were according to legend so equipped as well. Dunno as to the truth of that however.



Here next to my "sleeper" infantry Chasse. To highlight some of the differences. The sleeper made in London by Potts in 1869 and the cavalry gun by Chatteleraullt in 1870.



Disregard the muzzle brake and you get a good idea of difference in length.
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Offline Len

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2021, 11:41:43 AM »
Piece of art, my view!

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2021, 07:15:39 PM »
Agreed.
As the Chassepot per se was made in such numbers, the infantry rifle that is, the "odd ones" kind of strike you as you get close to them.
Knowing the nooks n crannies of the Chassepot i guess.

The cavalry and gendarme carbines were scarce, and time sure as hell hasn´t made that any less so.

In turn, tell me i´m wrong, but there´s just something about the furniture being brass. The stock infantry piece looks WAY more dull due this IMO.

If memory serves Len your experience with the Chassepot is about nil, or at least very limited?
Seeing that they are permit free to us they ARE a highlight of sorts. As you´re aware they´re often dubbed "the first modern rifle", and from many an aspect this holds true.
When handed the ammunition they crave in turn they are DAMN accurate rifles to boot, and this in the ever ongoing 45 caliber. Brings that the amount of boolit shapes n forms offered is..mind bogglin...laughin matter even.

We´ve seen a slight jump in prices over the last yrs. Thus, to pick a DECENT one up on french Naturabuy or german E-gun, expect to fork over around the 1000€ mark approx. A GOOD one will run more, of course, but for a 1000€ you in reality get a rather smart single shot 45 that´ll amaze you i bet.

What´s more, to improve on them.. This can be done by YOU. Knowing that you keep decent heavy machinery it´s a breeze even. Cause see..
IMO the one does not rule out the other why a Chassepot, as a blackpowder gun, truly is in a class of its own and should "really" be compared to more modern day n era guns.
No.
No it´s NOT like a Ruger No1 and nor does it intend to be but it can sure hold its own in the accuracy dept if you just let it and.. it being an approx 1:20 twist that will handle "modern" blackpowder 45cal boolits it will shoot FAR with decent accuracy too.

As these are never run with the jacketed stuff even the old stock barrels still hold up. They normally dial in around the 458-460 mark, which is on par with other 45cal rifles to this day.
Barrel and action in themselves in turn are strong enough to take certain smokeless powders, but truth be told duplex loads is where it´s at with a Chasse if you ask me. That and T7 loads.

The Chassepot from many respects IS the missing link. Where the breech loaders come into their own, and are worked on and developed at a VERY high rate, and you know as well as i do.. leading up to one of the most fabled rifles ever produced.
The Mauser -96/-98.
The quirk of the story is that the first Mauser, model -71, was something Peter Mauser put in the market after the Preussians won the 1870/-71 war and sent hundred of thousands of Chassepot back to Germany.

Am i saying.. ? Yes. That´s EXACTLY what i´m saying. One of the world most reknown rifle makers started out with the basis of a French piece with its roots in 1866....

On the continent Len the Chassepot is a rather common face. Thus, getting one sure isn´t the end of the world. Nor is it an arm and a leg either.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 03:05:31 PM by Racing »
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2021, 03:02:20 PM »
Well guess what....









No. No, you simply can´t have to many.  (?^ (?^ )L$ )L$ &j(
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #124 on: May 05, 2021, 12:56:20 PM »
 M__
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #125 on: May 05, 2021, 03:02:18 PM »
 )L$ )L$

That said the day of rapture is here...



Yeah. They´re all based on the fabled Postell design and thus i hope that we´ll jump a lot of issues as far as long range performance. All of them for 1:20 twist 45cals.
From left to right...

Felix Escoffier muzzle loader. The French take on the fabled Whitworth, in short.
In the middle, the bore rider for the Monkey tail rifles n carbines.
..n to the right the bore rider boolit needed for the Chassepot.. Enough already.  :-X :9) (k-


Here we go lads!
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2021, 10:56:27 AM »


...aaaaaaand we have us a true 45cal bore-rider for the Chassepot.  &j(



4 drivebands all in all and at least reasonable room for grease.
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2021, 04:31:16 PM »


Right boys. Listen up, cause this here is a conclusion and a rather imperative such that i´ve reached.

You know from the thread on the Starr carbine recently that i´ve, again, seen very good results on paper with them bore-riders we designed based off of an original.
Point being that paper cartridge breech loaders per definition lack a point where the cartridge registers. Comes with the territory in essence.
In short brass gas tight cartridges.... paper cartridges are not. Anything but really..and thus we need to reevaluate...

Now. You´ve seen the results from me using turned bore-riders in the Chassepot previously, and now we were at the point where our mold was up for testing.

Bottom line?
With a bore-rider in a paper cartridge gun, a WELL designed such, you really can´t go wrong. The bore-rider hands the cartridge what it direly needs - a point to register - and this repeated chambering in this case is what brings practical accuracy.
That simple. We NEED to make the bullets run the rifled barrel true, time and time again.

Made 50 rounds up before heading for the range, and making them out of jumbo straw material brings that the cartridge will come to a dead halt within the chamber. No guesswork anymore.

Then i ever so slightly pry the wings of a regular musket cap apart, so the wings come to a rest on the tube/straw end.
This ensures that an issue otherwise inherent with the Chassepot cartridge, that the cap can move, is eliminated and THAT in turn hands that COAL all of a sudden becomes of lesser importance.
This as the bore-rider cartridge comes to a definitive stop at the front of the chamber, i at least just make sure it´s completely chambered/seated with my pinky, and as the tube carries structural integrity enough.. NOTHING, to the letter, moves as that firing needle comes rushing.

That brings that no matter the COAL really, as long as the needle is long enough to reach the musket cap the thing will go boom. Period, and this was a rather novel experience too.

What the bore-rider brings is repeatability and that in turn is the basis/foundation needed for practical repeated accuracy. Simple when you think about it no?

So. Am i saying this is for ALL paper cartridge guns? Yes. That´s EXACTLY what i´m saying, that with a paper cartridge bore-rider setup (a well designed such) you simply can´t go wrong.

That said i want to extend kudos to all those that mimic various original paper cartridge designs, this.. what i´m presenting here, is basically a manner in which to fab cartridges dirty fast to go plinking with your buddies as well as more involved target work.

This works. Period.
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