1858banner

Author Topic: cylinder measurements.  (Read 27593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Omnivore

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2738
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 03:52:21 PM »
Interesting.  I dinstinctly remember my Uberti and Pietta cylinders having different arbor hole diameters, such that one would certainly not fit the other.  My years-old Pietta fits with the newest Pietta cylinders, so Uberti would have to have changed their arbor diameter recently, as within the last two or three years.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline ssb73q

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3541
  • Gunsmoke junkie
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 04:30:21 PM »
Hi Omnivore, the Uberti 1858 Carbine that I bought from Johnnie was converted to use Pietta cylinders. I replaced the Uberti cylinder pin with a Pietta cylinder pin to better fit the Pietta cylinders. I agree that older Uberti revolvers may have used a smaller diameter cylinder pin than the current Pietta revolvers.

Regards,
Richard
There�s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3541
  • Gunsmoke junkie
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2015, 12:15:47 PM »
Hi, this post is to provide some dimension information for the archive on Pietta and Uberti cylinders. One C&B cylinder from a recent purchase Pietta and Uberti 1858 8" revolvers were removed and measurements taken.

Date code:
Pietta CI
Uberti CN

Cylinder length:
Pietta 2.017"
Uberti 2.000"

Cylinder diameter:
Pietta 1.593"
Uberti 1.601"

Cylinder pin hole:
Pietta 0.276"
Uberti 0.276"

Cylinder chamber diameter:
Pietta 0.446"
Uberti 0.449"

Cylinder bolt width:
Pietta 0.156"
Uberti 0.160"

Opposite chamber face to face ID:
Pietta 0.548"
Uberti 0.549"

Opposite chamber face to face OD:
Pietta 1.440"
Uberti 1.449"

There have been questions on whether the lower cost Pietta cylinders could be adapted to the Uberti revolver. Use this information as you will.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, I received my Uberti 1858 6-shot conversion cylinder today. It fits perfectly in my Uberti 1858, a drop in. While it was sold by Midwayusa as a Howell, the box says Taylor. I measured the dimensions of both the Taylor Pietta 6-shot 1858 and Uberti 1858 conversion cylinders and will list those dimensions with the C&B cylinders:

Cylinder length:
Pietta C&B 2.017"
Uberti C&B 2.000"
Pietta conversion cylinder 2.014"
Uberti conversion cylinder 2.000"

Cylinder diameter:
Pietta C&B 1.593"
Uberti C&B 1.601"
Pietta conversion cylinder 1.624"
Uberti conversion cylinder 1.624"

Cylinder pin hole:
Pietta C&B 0.276"
Uberti C&B 0.276"
Pietta conversion cylinder 0.2785"
Uberti conversion cylinder 0.278"

Cylinder chamber diameter:
Pietta C&B 0.446"
Uberti C&B 0.449"
Pietta conversion cylinder 0.4525"
Uberti conversion cylinder 0.453"

Cylinder bolt width:
Pietta C&B 0.156"
Uberti C&B 0.160"
Pietta conversion cylinder 0.160"
Uberti conversion cylinder 0.158"

Opposite chamber face to face ID:
Pietta C&B 0.548"
Uberti C&B 0.549"
Pietta conversion cylinder 0.546"
Uberti conversion cylinder 0.541"

Opposite chamber face to face OD:
Pietta C&B 1.440"
Uberti C&B 1.449"
Pietta conversion cylinder 1.451"
Uberti conversion cylinder 1.448"

Notice that other than conversion cylinder length on how close the conversion cylinder dimensions. IMO the forcing cone would make up for the slight difference. Since I had two Taylor Pietta conversions, I thought of just turning down the face of one of the Pietta cylinders to fit the Uberti 1858 and send the new Uberti conversion cylinder back. One can never have too many conversion cylinders so I will keep the Taylor Uberti conversion cylinder.  :) :) However, if any of you have a Uberti, you can probably modify a Pietta 1858 conversion cylinder safely to work in your Uberti 1858.

One note on these conversion cylinders for the 1858 is that the timing is set to drop the bolt before the bolt slot lines up. Further cocking allows the bolt to fully enter the cylinder bolt slot.

This information may not be useful to you today, but hopefully provide a useful archive reference for the future.

Regards,
Richard

There�s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline R.E.M

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2016, 05:51:33 AM »

One note on these conversion cylinders for the 1858 is that the timing is set to drop the bolt before the bolt slot lines up. Further cocking allows the bolt to fully enter the cylinder bolt slot.
Regards,
Richard


 I was reading through this post and was trying to understand this statement, isn't the timing of the bolt built into the hammer and the bolt notch in the cylinder clocked to align chamber with barrel?


[/quote]

Offline ssb73q

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3541
  • Gunsmoke junkie
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2016, 06:31:10 AM »

One note on these conversion cylinders for the 1858 is that the timing is set to drop the bolt before the bolt slot lines up. Further cocking allows the bolt to fully enter the cylinder bolt slot.
Regards,
Richard


 I was reading through this post and was trying to understand this statement, isn't the timing of the bolt built into the hammer and the bolt notch in the cylinder clocked to align chamber with barrel?


[/quote]

Hi REM, all my 1858s with C&B cylinders have the bolt drop exactly as the cylinder slot is over the bolt, perfect timing. However, all my Howell conversion cylinders have the bolt drop just before the bolt lines up with the cylinder slot. Further cocking of the hammer moves the cylinder where the bolt will drop into the cylinder slot. One would think that this is not good and would bugger up the leading edge of the cylinder slot? The conversion cylinder uses much harder steel than the C&B cylinders where all that's noticed is a little bluing rubbed ahead of the cylinder slot. Most revolver cylinders have a bolt lead-in where the bolt drops in the lead-in and further cocking has the bolt drop into the cylinder slot, the 1858 doesn't use a lead-in. I think that the Howell cylinder timing is to have different revolvers with slightly different timing to work properly and not have cylinder over-rotation, a product liability issue.

BTW, for fast draw and fanning, a bolt that drops early is preferred so that the cylinder doesn't overtake the bolt drop and not lock the cylinder chamber in alignment with the bore.

Does this help you understand my comment?

Regards,
Richard
There�s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline R.E.M

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2016, 04:41:27 AM »
 OK, so the notch in the cylinder for the hand would have a different orientation to the bolt notch than factory cylinder for this to drop the bolt earlier in the rotation.
My pietta's also drop directly into the bolt notch without rubbing the cylinder. I think I measured the bolt to be 3 to 4 thousands under the notch size, which gives the cylinder a little slop but not enough to bother accuracy in any measurable degree I believe giving all the other variables.

Thanks Richard for the explanation.

Regards,
Ronnie

Offline ssb73q

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3541
  • Gunsmoke junkie
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2016, 04:59:51 AM »
Hi Ronnie, the Howell conversion cylinders have the cylinder bolt slot usually 0.005" wider than the C&B cylinder. Again, it's a method to make sure that different bolt width revolvers will work with the conversion cylinder. That adds a potential +-0.0025" misalignment with the forcing cone expected to take care of the misalignment, which it does.

Regards,
Richard
There�s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2016, 06:07:52 AM »
R.E.M.,
 The bolt timing is independent of the cylinder. You are correct in your statement that the hammer " holding the key" for bolt drop. The hand is adjusted to advance/retard cylinder rotation.
 The bolt should drop just before the lock notch (one bolt width in front for factory setting). This event produces a "click" , which would be the second click heard. The third and final click is a combination of two events happening simultaneously, full cock and the bolt locking in the notch. That, is "perfect timing".  The bolt dropping directly in the notch instead of ahead of the notch is how the edges of the notch get damaged.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline John

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 07:34:31 AM »
Hi I am new here and just stumbled across this
       I have am ASM brass frame 58 around 20 years old I purchased new.
             
             cylinder length  2.007

             cylinder diameter 1.617

             cylinder bore 0.448

             cylinder center hole 0.276

             cylinder bolt width 0.138

             cylinder opposed cylinder I.D.  0.551

             cylinder opposed cylinder O.D. 1.44


      I hope this helps someone out, I'm just getting back into BP and am looking to purchase a 58 steel with the conversion clyinder soon
       and this makes interesting resurch.
            Thanks John
I'm a freetrapper by God and I'll sell my plews to the highest bidder!

Offline DD4lifeusmc

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 9226
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2017, 08:27:58 AM »

Please jump over to the welcome wagon, tell us about yourself and how you found us.
And of course we are addicted to pictures

Hi I am new here and just stumbled across this
       I have am ASM brass frame 58 around 20 years old I purchased new.
             
             cylinder length  2.007

             cylinder diameter 1.617

             cylinder bore 0.448

             cylinder center hole 0.276

             cylinder bolt width 0.138

             cylinder opposed cylinder I.D.  0.551

             cylinder opposed cylinder O.D. 1.44


      I hope this helps someone out, I'm just getting back into BP and am looking to purchase a 58 steel with the conversion clyinder soon
       and this makes interesting resurch.
            Thanks John
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
------------
Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline torpedoman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2021, 03:22:42 PM »
the taylor uberti conversion cylinder was a drop in on the ddg marked 1972 made 1858 tight lockup and no end play
give me a tall ship and a star to steer her by for i intend to go in harms way.