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Author Topic: cylinder measurements.  (Read 27591 times)

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Offline torpedoman

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cylinder measurements.
« on: January 06, 2015, 03:41:29 PM »
i think that if everyone measured their cylinders for overall length and cylinder pin diameter we could get a real good idea of what fits what . just list maker and measurements many like mine may not be identifiable any more as to who actually made them but once we get enough measurements and identifying marks we can figure out what actually fits.

 1858- marked  DGG in a circle under loading lever- attributed to ASM now euroarms
    Cylinder length 2.001  pin hole dia .281
 1858 -buffalo -maker unknown  barrel stamper SM BLACK POWDER ONLY 44 MADE IN ITALY nickle plated brass frame
 cylinder length 2.000  pin hole dia. .277
maybe someone a bit more puter savy than me could set this up as a poll so you could just measure and list  yours under the correct maker
give me a tall ship and a star to steer her by for i intend to go in harms way.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 09:05:43 PM »
1858- marked  DGG in a circle under loading lever- attributed to ASM now euroarms

DGG is Armi San Paolo (ASP) now known as Euroarms, rather than ASM (Armi San Marco). Just sayin'...
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Offline West Texan

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 09:26:07 AM »
Here is a photo of two cylinders one from my Pietta Sheriff and the other from a Lyman made by or marketed by ASM in the 1970s
I do not have a caliper to measure these. The Pietta will not fit in the Lyman, but the Lyman will drop in the Pietta. ( not for shooting but just to see the differences in size. )

Offline Len

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 01:58:40 PM »
Got two original cylinders for my original 1858:
Length 2.008", dia 1.626", pinhole dia 0.266"
Length 2.008", dia 1.627", pinhole dia 0.268"

Offline prof marvel

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2015, 09:56:25 PM »
here is everything I found this evening. please note there were many folks measuring, and "me" or "I" refers to that person from whom I stole the snip....

          Pietta                 Euroarms

Length:  2.025"               2.004"      .021 to shorten

Diameter:  1.593             1.610

The Pietta has rectangular notches and the Euroarms has the trapezoidal notches.

(1983) ASP/Euroarms .44
Length over all: 2.004"
diameter: 1.602"
I.D. of arbor hole: .275

My Pietta cylinder mics out at 2.015. My ASP cylinder mics out at 2.00

My .44 cylinder mics to 1.9995" from the front face to the rear of the rachet.

Uberti cylinders measure 1.999" - 2.000" OL
Armi San Paolo/Euroarms 2.006" OL
Pietta standard model 58 NMA 2.016" - 2.018"

I've got 3 Uberti cylinders.  They all mic out to 2.000


Wolfgang's original
It turns out that it is not a Beals frame after all.   A fellow on the SCORRS ( Society of Remington Revolver Shooters ) forum explained to me the differences.   So it is a New Model Army frame and lever with Beals cylinder, barrel and hammer.

Measurements:
                               Length      chambers

Beals cylinder        2.010          ..449   -  .452   at the mouths - - smaller deeper and they vary some

Kirst  converter     2.020           .450

ASM                      2.010          .450

Pietta                    2.020          .455

Beals barrel bore     .450

My conical bullets   . .454   rebated at the base and hollow based.

measure the cylinder length end-to-end. If it measures 2.000- it is likely ASM or ASP.
All my Piettas measure 2.025+ or better

hope this helps
prof marvel
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Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 02:48:19 AM »
Pietta of recent (none older than 15 years) manufacture.
3 SS cylinders and 2 blue cylinders.
Length from 2.017" to 2.021"
Diameter from 1.590" to 1.597".
Pin holes .277 to .278

A new Uberti
Length 2.002"
Diameter 1.606"
Pin hole .277"

Incidentally, all the Pietta cylinders had a chamber mouth diameter of .446". I have a theory about why they make the chambers so much smaller than the barrel groove diameter. If the chambers were sized to the proper diameter of .450 to .452", somebody would probably try to ram in a .451" jacketed 45ACP bullet.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline Classanr

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 08:47:09 AM »
...Incidentally, all the Pietta cylinders had a chamber mouth diameter of .446". I have a theory about why they make the chambers so much smaller than the barrel groove diameter. If the chambers were sized to the proper diameter of .450 to .452", somebody would probably try to ram in a .451" jacketed 45ACP bullet.

I buy that theory.  Fortunately .446 works with soft lead.
You use the term "had" [a chamber mouth diameter].  By this do you mean they all still measure .446", or that the chambers are now .45x" but when purchased factory-fresh they were .446"?
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Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 02:00:26 PM »
They are still .446" diameter, except for two that I opened up to .451".
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline Classanr

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 04:29:47 PM »
They are still .446" diameter, except for two that I opened up to .451".

Have you noticed any improvements/degredation shooting RB in the .451?
Did you have to make any adjustments in RB size or loading techniques?
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 08:30:22 PM »
I've never fired balls in the cylinders that were opened up, just conicals. I've only fired those at 15 feet (inside a shop) so I could clock the velocity. I will be going to a range in the future to check accuracy at 25 yards. I should probably fire some balls along with the conicals so I can compare. The slow twist of the Pietta barrel might not like the conicals. I'll use .457" Speer balls when testing.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline DHHilliard

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 07:20:57 PM »
Just found this thread. My CVA/ASM cyl measures 2.015 long, 1.647 dia, .170 cyl pin hole and chambers .451/.452. At least that's what my fancy Harbor Freight caliper says. By the way, just ordered two CVA cylinders from Deer Creek. They don't have 1858's on the web site but they have the parts.
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Offline DHHilliard

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2015, 06:21:55 PM »
Just got my cylinders from Deer Creek and they don't fit. Original 2.014 and new ones 2.024 nominal. Will have a 'smith look at them to see if practical to mill .01 off or just return them.
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Offline Lead Balls

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 03:13:43 AM »
here is everything I found this evening. please note there were many folks measuring, and "me" or "I" refers to that person from whom I stole the snip....

I get that but I don't know where else to ask, so at the risk of sounding really stupid......
Quote
It turns out that it is not a Beals frame after all.   A fellow on the SCORRS ( Society of Remington Revolver Shooters ) forum explained to me the differences.   So it is a New Model Army frame and lever with Beals cylinder, barrel and hammer.
I thought the Beals and the New Army were the same thing, what did I miss?
In my experience, the secret to happiness is a matter of learning to sort the occasional good idea from an endless body of bad ones.

Offline prof marvel

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 10:31:13 PM »
here is everything I found this evening. please note there were many folks measuring, and "me" or "I" refers to that person from whom I stole the snip....

I get that but I don't know where else to ask, so at the risk of sounding really stupid......
Quote
It turns out that it is not a Beals frame after all.   A fellow on the SCORRS ( Society of Remington Revolver Shooters ) forum explained to me the differences.   So it is a New Model Army frame and lever with Beals cylinder, barrel and hammer.
I thought the Beals and the New Army were the same thing, what did I miss?

The Remington Beals was the predecessor to the New Model Army .
see here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111006212142/http://scorrs.org/articles/Remmodels.htm

and here

from
https://web.archive.org/web/20111006211512/http://scorrs.org/articles/evolution.htm

"The first large-framed revolvers made by E. Remington & sons were based on "Beals" 1858 patent, collectors call these first revolvers "Beals" models. About 2,000 were made in the army model, and slightly more in the "Navy" model. The army was .44 cal, with an 8" barrel while the navy model was in .36 cal with a 7 3/8" barrel. They differed quite a bit from the "New model 1858" Remington repros we commonly see today."

"First of all the loading lever was more squared off, and the round part longer. The "web" portion being shorter. The hammers had higher "spurs", and the metal on top of the frame just behind the hammer was about a quarter inch longer. The frame came all the way back to the end of the barrel, so no barrel thread were showing. They all also had German silver cone-shaped, dovetailed front sights. They did not have "safety notches" in the cylinder, otherwise, looked very similar to the modern reproductions. "

and here
A LOOK AT TWO REMINGTONS
AND A COUSIN
THE REMINGTON BEALS
AN ARMY AND TWO NAVIES- PART 1
http://armscollectors.com/mgs/an_army_and_two_navies_pt_1.htm

hth
prof mrvl
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: cylinder measurements.
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 11:25:36 AM »
Hi, this post is to provide some dimension information for the archive on Pietta and Uberti cylinders. One C&B cylinder from a recent purchase Pietta and Uberti 1858 8" revolvers were removed and measurements taken.

Date code:
Pietta CI
Uberti CN

Cylinder length:
Pietta 2.017"
Uberti 2.000"

Cylinder diameter:
Pietta 1.593"
Uberti 1.601"

Cylinder pin hole:
Pietta 0.276"
Uberti 0.276"

Cylinder chamber diameter:
Pietta 0.446"
Uberti 0.449"

Cylinder bolt width:
Pietta 0.156"
Uberti 0.160"

Opposite chamber face to face ID:
Pietta 0.548"
Uberti 0.549"

Opposite chamber face to face OD:
Pietta 1.440"
Uberti 1.449"

There have been questions on whether the lower cost Pietta cylinders could be adapted to the Uberti revolver. Use this information as you will.

Regards,
Richard
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