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Offline pugilist

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More newbie questions
« on: April 27, 2015, 12:17:00 PM »
I'm really leaning towards the Uberti 8inch Remmy .44, I even looked on the map for a place to shoot since the local gun ranges aren't an option yet.  BUT, I got to accessorize...

Powder flask, just how much powder should it hold?  I'm leaning towards the Remington powder flask that comes with the 24g nozzle.  I figure let's go for a historical look and it holds 4 oz. of BP.  But, should I get the 30g nozzle too? 

Also, there's a debate about loading BP directly from the flask, either it's a no-no or it's acceptable if you're careful, have the right measure and don't spill the powder onto the other chambers.  I would prefer loading it right from the flask like the old timers.

Percussion caps?  I read that Remington 10 or CCI 11 will fit just fine.  But are stock Uberti nipples fine or should I go aftermarket?

Why so many different nipple wrenches?  Are they all the same?  And what's with the vent pick?  Couldn't I use a modified paper clip?

Which capper?  I don't want to dremel anything just yet, so I figured an in-line capper will get the caps started better than the teardrop one.   

Last, I might be opening a can of worms, but did the old timers use wadding?  I read if you use wadding, it's not necessary to put grease on top of the chamber to prevent chain fires or vice versa.  I thought if the ball seals really good (shave off a nice ring), then that acts as a seal to prevent chain fires. 

Offline mazo kid

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 12:41:47 PM »
A 4 ounce flask holds 1750 grains of powder so you should be good to go with that!  You can get a larger capacity nozzle and cut it back to tailor your loads. 24 grains would be a good place to start. Nipple wrenches.....some are junk, you can't go wrong with a Tedd Cash ratchet wrench. Also, be careful about cappers, some of those are junk too. I don't think the "old timers" used wads, but a lot of us do now, lubed wads either under or over the ball. Mostly, I use grease over the ball. I don't know about caps/nipples. Why not wait until you have the gun "in hand" ( )L$" to judge for yourself? You are in for a great adventure! Enjoy you new toy!

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 04:18:06 PM »
Dear Pugilist,
            I personally prefer Pietta guns, but then if we were the same age, we'd probably have different tastes in Women as well!  Ted Cash Cappers seem to be of good quality, but since I don't reload,"In the Field," I have no use for such.  I have a total of 16 cylinders, so I always reload them in comfort in my home!
            I regard wads as,"A Solution to a Problem That Does Not Exist!"  To me, they are a complete and total waste of time and money.  I have a nipple wrench, but the only time I EVER USE IT, is when I buy a new gun OR New Cylinder, and then I go around ALL the nipples, and tighten them as tightly as I can. Then I forget about them. I have never EVER removed a nipple when cleaning the gun.Another Utter and Complete waste of Time & Effort!I load my ball directly onto the powder charge, then use a mixture of Beeswax and Olive oil. (Half & Half by volume.) and when that is set, you can put it OVER THE BALLS! Thataway, the FIRST ball that gets shot down the barrel is lubed!!!  Do not EVER USE CRISCO for a lube over the ball.  It is FAR TOO SOFT! Your very FIRST SHOT,will blow ALL THE CRISCO FROM ALL THE CHAMBERS, and the comments you may see from time to time, about this making the gun as slippery as a greased Pig at the County Fair, are because the person used Crisco as an over the ball lube! Leave Crisco, in Loretta Lynn's Kitchen!
            I have two Powder Flasks. A small one,(The eagle Flask from Dixie Gun Works!) that I use for dropping about ten grains of Black Powder into the bottom of each of my revolver chambers, and a Civil War Sized Musket Flask, which is kept stocked with Pyrodex P..  For my Personal Defense Load,(PDL.) I use a Pyrodex Pistol 30 Grain Pellet and that with the ten grain Holy Black "Starter," gets me a load that is, "Muy Macho!"  First time you set that sucker off, you'll think you just set off a Nike Ground to Air Missile!  (With your own two sweaty little hands!) I ignore Hogdens advice to not crush the pellet. I mash that sucker down into the chambers, by setting the ball down hard on the powder with a Great Big Rubber Mallet. I pound that ball down REAL hard, and it goes off like Dambusters!!!
            You will get some  members who insist that they always remove their nipples each time they clean their guns! I shot a pair of eight inch barreled Remingtons from 1988 until 2002. They were shot with hot loads regularly for FOURTEEN YEARS, and I never once touched a nipple, except when they were brand new, I tightened 'em all REAL TIGHT! I never had any trouble of ANY KIND, THAT COULD BE RELATED TO A NIPPLE! I have had my three Sheriff's Models, since 2011 and 2012, have done the same thing with them, and once more, NO TROUBLES OF ANY KIND THAT COULD BE RELATED TO A NIPPLE!  The Engineers who designed the cylinders and the ignition system for these guns, designed them RIGHT!  Do you really think some Half-Assed Amateur, of a Black Powder Hobbyist, is going to improve on that? PSHAW!
            I always shoot heavy loads in all my guns. Never below between 800 to 1000 fps. I never have any problems. To get slightly higher velocity, I use .457 Balls. The extra tight ball, takes a fraction of a Nano Second longer to move in the chamber, which gives the charge that little extra time to REALLY GET IT'S DANDER UP!  My revolvers rear back up in recoil, to an angle of 45 degrees from the horizontal, when I touch 'em off!  The BOOM sounds like an F-16 breaking the Sound Barier from nearby Luke Air Force Base!  Even though the load is undoubtedly a HOT ONE, it is still pretty accurate!  A few weeks ago, I shot 12 rounds from 7 yards, emptying the guns as rapidly as it could get the sight picture after the recoil, and only ONE round was outside the nine ring! Had that been a Bad Guy, he sure wouldn't have been, "Chirping None!"
            Loading a hot RIFLE from a flask of powder is a definite NO-NO!  At the bottom of that long barrel, it is within the realm of possibility, that a spark may be lingering! If it was, and you dumped a powder charge on top of it, it is POSSIBLE, it might flash back up the barrel, and ignite the powder in the flask. Then people would be calling you Lefty, as they fed your Seeing-Eye-Dog tid-bits.  I have never seen this happen. I have been at, "War Between The States!" Re-enactments, where guys were hurriedly reloading Blank Charges, and have never heard of it happening there either!  With a revolver you can almost forget about it, as by the time you get around to pouring in a fresh charge,well it is quite easy to peer into the chambers of a revolver, and see it is free of any possibly smouldering Crud!  You'd be as well to take a good look, but if the chamber is empty, and you can SEE that, you're usually fine!  IN my case, it is always an hour, (AT least!) between my last shot, and when I begin to reload.  Also, since I am almost paranoid about RELIABILITY, I always BOIL all my cylinders in an old Saucepan when I get home. When they have simmered for aboout five minuits, I fish them out with a piece of slim dowel, and let them Air dry.  By the tme they are cool enough to touch with a bare hand, ALL the moisture has evaporated, and they are, "Surgically Clean!"  I always boil them in the pan with the nipples UPWARD.So that the water in the pan boils up through the chambers, and is restricted by the much smaller hole in the nipple. So all the nipples are, "Force Steam Cleaned!"
When they are a cool, I can hold them up in front of my face, look through the chambers, and see six bright pinpoints of light!  So I KNOW my nipples are clear! (DO make sure to clean out the saucepan well afterwards! Pieces of crud CAN get boiled up into the chambers the next time you boil you cylinder(s), and may possibly block a nipple?
            Before you buy, bear in mind that the quality of Pietta's has improved a great deal in the past few years. Mine have always been the soul of reliability, and I DO trust my life to them!!! They are also less expensive, and if the idea of spare cylinders appeals to you, Pietta's cylinders are a Hell of a Lot Cheaper!
                                            Hope this has all been of some help to you?
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:43:06 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
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Offline Omnivore

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 04:41:13 PM »
What mazo said.

I'd add that a lot of people load directly from a flask.  Some ranges prohibit it, mostly for liability reasons.  There is a very small, but still greater than zero, chance that an ember in a chamber could ignite the powder as you're pouring it in, thus igniting the whole flask and blowing your hand off or something.  Just don't get in a hurry and you *should* be fine.  I do it all the time, but I also make sure to give the chamber a little while to cool off.  I HAVE SEEN a fresh charge ignite in a long gun during loading, but it was during a demonstration of how many times a muzzleloader could be fired and reloaded within a minute, by an experienced shooter.  With a revolver you're not charging the very same chamber you just fired, typically, anyway, for what that's worth.  Just don't try to push the speed envelope.

Use the stock nipples for now.  There's nothing wrong with them.

You'll probably never need a nipple pick.  I used one once. But that was when I was shooting paper cartridges with twisted ends going in against the back of the chamber.  In hundreds of those, exactly one of them resulted in a little wad of paper being pushed into a flash hole in a nipple.  It took some doing to clear it.  Other than that I've never needed a nipple pick and probably never will.  Since one came with a gun I bought, it's in my range kind there it will stay.

I use a snail capper on un-modified Remingtons, but I've narrowed the capper at the tip.  As far as I'm concerned it's the only way to go, but start with a straight capper.

Original instructions for the Colts at least make no mention of lube or wads at all, just powder, ball and cap.  Wads go under the ball, not over.

So long as you have the right size ball, and your chambers are in good condition. You'll probably never experience a chain fire.  Look up an article on the web entitled Clean Loading (of percussion revolvers) though, for some interesting experiments.

One of the best things you can do to keep the gun running in the field is simply blow moist breath down the bore and over the chambers after every cylinder full.  It softens the fouling a lot and frees things up.

Wadding the lubing is a sort of a can of worms. The gun will function without any of that stuff, and so it comes down to what shoots accurately for you, and continues to shoot accurately after some largish number of shots before you have to start taking things apart for cleaning when you'd rather continue shooting.  Read that article I mentioned for some clues there also.

So there are two things a wad can do for you.  One is to improve accuracy, though that is usually seen in rifles and usually with flat based conicals.  The other is to distribute lube in the bore behind the ball, so it keeps the fouling soft.  The chain fire issue to me is tertiary, to non existent.

A little bit of lube can result in a steady buildup of hard crud in the barrel, which destroys accuracy and makes for difficult cleaning afterward.  Ask me how I know.  A lot of lube can leave the fouling so soft that it gets blown out with each subsequent shot.  Again, see that article.

It is possible to shoot dozens of shots and still have the gun running smooth, with very little fouling in the bore, and with easy cleanup of the bore afterwards.  I've been using a lube cookie of Gatofeo Number One lube (GF1) of about an eighth inch thickness, between the powder and the bullet, and that seems to do the job pretty well.  No wad.  See my on-going challenge to that effect in the powder section on this forum; "tell me, what's the dirtiest, nastiest powder" or some title to that effect.

No need to get terribly complicated though.  You can start with just powder, ball and cap, and the necessary cleaning accessories.  Blow through the gun each time after you've emptied it.


Offline mike116

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 06:39:14 PM »
Get the revolver in your hands.  Play around with it and get familiar.   Then all you need is some powder, a way to measure your powder,  some lead balls and some caps.   You don't even really need a capper.   Once you shoot a few times you can begin to get an idea of what you might like to add to your possibles bag.  Start out really simple,  concentrate on learning the loading procedure and handling the gun properly.   
Keep it all really simple to start,  later you can try all sorts of different things like cappers and nipples and wads and conical bullets.
First things first though,  get the revolver.

Offline pugilist

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 09:57:11 PM »
Thanks guys!  I appreciate all the info.  So I don't really need wads and lube just helps keep fouling soft for easier maintenance.  Powder, ball, get a good seal, cap it, fire, repeat.  I'm trying to avoid getting any stuff that a beginner gets that eventually winds up in  drawer...

Was I right that CCI 11 caps and Remington 10 caps are pretty much the same size? 

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2015, 10:27:21 PM »
OK, first off....Welcome aboard and congrats on choosing a Remmy!
Now, for my 2 cents:
I use wads. Used lube or Crisco over-ball for years...all it does is give you the feeling of holding on to a greased eel after the the first shot. Whether chainfires come from the ball end or the nipple end (or both) will probably be debated long after we're gone. Most feel it's from too loose of a ball (such as a .451 in a .450 chamber) to which I heartily agree...I use a .457 in the guns that will take it and .454 in the rest....but either way, the wad can't hurt. I have never experienced a chainfire using a wonder wad. Can't say the same for Crisco as after the first shot very little gets left in the cylinder.
Caps; use #10 Remington. I've had poor luck with CCI caps and both Uberti and Pietta use #10 nipples. The Remmy caps fit snugly WITHOUT SQUEEZING (the "other" source of chainfires IMHO). Leave the #11 caps for rifles. They are too big for Uberti or Pietta nipples.
Stock nipples are fine, BTW....
I use a flask that holds about half a pound and pour into a variable measure. Again; you may get away with it for a long time or maybe forever, but what if....Not taking chances with my eyes or hands.
Nipple wrench? Buy a good one. Better yet, make one using a deep well socket and a 1/4" driver. Sockets are chrome vanadium and much stronger than the soft iron junk (trinkets) most suppliers sell. Nipple pick? use an old guitar high e or b-string if you want. I have a Pedersoli nipple wrench with built in pick that works very well.
Cappers...you can modify a straight-line, but Remmies don't cotton well to cappers in stock form. Usually I place the cap on the nipple using thumb & finger and seat with a short section of wooden dowel for safety.
Above all, be safe. Accidents can and do happen, usually with nothing more than a change of underwear, but I say better safe than sorry. Err on the side of caution, especially as a new BP shooter.
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Offline robertmcw

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 10:03:31 PM »
Don’t forget to remember to put just a LITTLE of anti seize on each nipple before you install them back.  It is exceptive to pay to get stuck nipples fixed. 
RM
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:08:17 PM by robertmcw »

Offline pugilist

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 10:54:14 PM »
I just found out that Dixiegunworks is a two hours drive for me...if only my car didn't overheat and wind up in the shop today!  I'm still confused which powder or powder substitute to use.  As far as I know, Goex is the dirtiest, then Pyrodex, then 777 which is the cleanest.  I guess I should start with whatever is cheap and available?  I'm inclined to pick up 777 if its around.

Offline Dellbert

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 11:23:42 PM »
Hay whether new or old to the sport of black powder shooting it never hurts to read through this kind of information from time to time. Think you pugilist for the questions and think you fellas for the answers. (T^ pugilist when it comes to which powder you'll never get the same answer. If I had to pick I'd say start with the Pyrodex P. Yes you'll have to clean the gun but your going to haft to clean it with no matter which powder you pick. The Goex is in some cases hard to find in the gun shops. The T7 will cost more than the first two. You can always try it later. Just my 2 cents worth. Oh the 30 gr pistol pellets you would probably have to order which would cost even more $$$
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Offline pugilist

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2015, 11:31:57 PM »
No pellets for me.  I want to either pour powder from the flask or make my own paper cartridges.  I read through the info on these forums.  It seems that the dirtier the powder, the more people recommend using lube or wads.  I want to do it how like how the old timers did it, just powder (or substitute), ball, cap, fire.  I figure once in a while I'll use wads or lube as a way of helping with routine maintenance.  With my car in the shop, I might have to delay getting a Remmy  ^y%

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 10:23:01 PM »
I have been shooting Remington '58s for over 30 years and the best combo is to lube the cylinder pin with a lube like Bore Butter before shooting, then load the cylinders with about 28 or 30 grains of 3fg Goex powder followed by a Wonder Wad with a .454 ball on top. I can fire at least four cylinders (48 shots) before it even begins to show signs of binding from black powder fouling. Use a white shop rag to keep the outside of your pistol clean after every cylinder fired and it will keep on going. Yes, Goex powder is dirty compared to the high quality old 1860s powders, but I have never had a problem with and it cleans up really well with hot water under the kitchen facet. If you would like a cleaner burning powder more like they had back in the old days, get a can Swiss powder. Remington #10 caps have always worked best for me. CCI caps suck.

Keep in mind that back in the day (1860s-'70s), they rarely fired more than one cylinder full at a time and thus, lubes were not used.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 10:54:00 PM by Bishop Creek »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 05:37:27 AM »
People talk about Pyro P being dirty....yes, it IS dirty. So is BP. Remember this, though...Pyrodex is NON-PROGRESSIVE FOULING....which means you can shoot all day without the bore fouling up on you and having to bore-brush the thing between loadings. The cylinder and pin issues are easily remedied by popping the cylinder out every couple of loadings and wiping it and the pin down with a rag, then re-lubing the pin (I use white lithium grease). This allows me to shoot several hundred rounds with no issues whatsoever.
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Offline G Dog

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2015, 07:05:46 PM »
Just stumbled into this thread.  You guys are in top form givin it to Pugilist from the ground up.  Wish I could have read this when I was first starting out.  It sure would have front loaded the ol learning curve…by years.  Talk about a Head Start Program…gosh.

Ya'll deserve a range report and a couple of pictures.  Pugilist...you out there boy?

Just sayin is all.
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Offline pugilist

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Re: More newbie questions
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2015, 10:12:02 PM »
I'm here.  I'm stick my head in once a while to see if anyone posted anything I should know.  Money's a bit tight because my car is in the shop and just my luck, a Gander Mountain just opened about 15 minutes away.  Hopefully they got they percussion caps and powder, so I don't have to pay the hazmat shipping fee.  Once I save up all my pennies and nickels, I'll order the Uberti 1858 Remmy and send pictures.  As for a range report, I'll just be plinking once I find a place to shoot. 

So my shopping list is: Uberti Remmy, Remingtion #10 caps, powder (any 3F I can get my hands on), a powder flask and 30g spout, lubed wads, .454 balls, a straight cappers, and a nipple wrench.  And maybe an extra cylinder too.  Then I'll worry about a holster, cartridge pouch, paper for paper cartridges, etc.