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Author Topic: Original or Defarb?  (Read 3176 times)

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Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Original or Defarb?
« on: April 20, 2015, 04:02:29 PM »
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=478246734

What do you guys think?
I asked the seller if it was a replica & he said it was an Original.
I think the buyer is going to be upset.

AntiqueSledMan

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 05:17:09 PM »
Looks like it was refinished at some point.  Other than that I wouldn't know.

There's a "Antique Metropolitan Navy Model" up at Track of the Wolf which was recently refinished and re-blued (blech) and it's been sitting there for months with no takers.  Percussion revolvers usually turn around within hours, or a few days, on that site.

Online Hawg

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 06:11:17 PM »
I might be wrong but I don't think repros have pinched frames.
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Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 06:42:49 PM »
I'm was going by the cylinder.
The cut-outs next to the nipples have a flat bottom, originals had a round bottom.
I asked for pictures of the back side of cylinder, specifically the ratchet, but he sent me nothing.
If someone paid over 7 hundred it sure shouldn't be an Italian.
Will have to see if it gets relisted.

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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 12:41:05 AM »
Dear Friends,     
            The Good Lord Knows I'm not an expert on the Genuineness of Antique Percussion Revolvers, but that pistol looks pretty NEW!   All the originals I have seen, or seen pictures of, have shown significant wear and tear about the Nipple Cavities, and some obvious chewing up marks on the safety notches.  The Pictures shown of this gun, make it look like either a stainless Steel Gun,(Of Modern Manufacture!!!) Or an Italian Replica, that has seen little or no use!  There do not appear to be any Remington & Sons markings on the barrel, and the number stamped on the trigger guard seems very much at variance with the markings on all my Pietta's, or any other Replica Revolver I have ever seen.  In fact to me, it looks a little like an Exhibition Model, made for display at a gun show
            Hawg would be the best Person for an opinion on this revolver, Mind you, I don't know what a Pinched Frame Looks like, so I am not at all qualified to judge on this gun. Except to say I would not pay more for it that I would for any 8" barreled Pietta or Uberti from Cabela's!  To me, it looks like a gun that has been,"Gussied Up," to impress someone who is not an expert, but who might just be gulible enough to buy this, "Gold Brick,"  of a gun.   It would not interest me, for I suspect it has not been made by either Uberti OR Pietta, and my confidence in Pietta Products, is well established!
            To me, it looks like a gun from one of the Italian Makers, that has not been fired much, but that someone with a Little Knowledge has polished all the blueing off it, then aged the grips, and polished it to mke it look like n original and in  UN-BELIEVABLY Good Condition.  It looks too good to be true, and probably is!
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
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Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 10:06:32 AM »
It looks a lot like Pietta's stainless version of their Spiller and Burr. (Not sure why they didn't call it a stainless Whitney, nor why they didn't make a blued steel version - they are strange about their "fantasy guns," and these are as much one thing as the other).

If anyone's interested we are trying to get Pietta to make a steel "Spiller" so that people can have a replica "Whitney."

http://www.pietta.us/products/Muzzleloadinguns/Spiller/gallery/Spiller_1862_02.html

Offline Battis

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 05:33:43 AM »
I know this is an older thread but...
I emailed the seller when the auction was going on and asked him to measure the threads on the nipples and screws to see if they were metric or not (Italian screws/nipples have metric threads).  He did and said they were not metric.  There's also a few inspector's marks on the gun, and E Whitney N Haven on the barrel (no other markings on the gun).  The bore was worn as it should be on an antique.  I had some info on the serial number but I can't find it now, though it was a legit number.
The only company that made Whitney repros was Palmetto.  I'm pretty sure this one was legit.  Too bad it was brushed down so much, though it's still a good looking revolver.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2015, 01:44:39 PM »
It is a very good looking revolver.  Wish someone would make the real steel deal.  We would all get (at least) one.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 01:54:59 PM »
It is a very good looking revolver.  Wish someone would make the real steel deal.  We would all get (at least) one.
Somebody does, G. Just wish I could remember who, but I've seen them on GB in past years.

Sorry, no way do I believe that is original. Far to clean for a wartime firearm.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Battis

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 03:00:57 PM »
I was going by the E Whitney N Haven on the barrel, the American screws and nipples, the inspector's marks, the bore, and the serial number.  Like I said, Palmetto (Italian) was the only company making repro Whitneys, and they had metric screws. 
I have a Whitney that's in realty good shape (bottom).  The frame is iron - that's why it turned a plum brown.  I'm pretty sure it was reblued at some point.

As far as the one on GB -  I was convinced it was original but not enough to bid on it.  Someone took some time to polish it all down and make it look good (and take away some of the value). You just never know.
Look at the Spiller & Burr in my pic - it's a repro but someone did a great job making it look old (I bought it as a repro).  They stamped CSA on the frame, and stamped the number 82 in several parts : #82 Spiller & Burr is unaccounted for.  And, the screws and nipples are American.
The recoil shield is kinda beat up...
Yep, Buyer Beware.



Offline mazo kid

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 03:15:02 PM »
Well, the gun sold, but I am not convinced if it was legit or not. As far as metric/SAE threads go, on many of the smaller screws, such as on this gun, I find it hard to tell the difference between them.

Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 03:24:04 PM »
Well maybe I'm wrong, not like that has never happened before.
Look at the pictures, a true Whitney, a Palmetto Whitney, and one from the auction.
The original cylinder cut out, where the nipples screw in are rounded on the forward end,
the Palmetto and the one from the auction are both flat on the forward end.
It hasn't come back up for auction so the new owner must be happy with his purchase.
PaleHawkDown, let me know when you get those steel frames in.

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Offline G Dog

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 04:26:24 PM »
Good eye there AntiqueSM.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Original or Defarb?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 09:29:19 PM »
I don't buy it.
I've seen some pretty good S&B defarbs in my day. This one (Whitney) just smells fake to me. Not sure why.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"