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Author Topic: Early Colt conversion  (Read 4089 times)

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Offline mazo kid

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 05:27:09 PM »
I haven't even taken the gun apart to look at it! Bolt, cam, hand?

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 08:51:57 PM »
That kit is what got me into "conversions".  Wish I still had it, that was back in '86 or '87! Two screws hold the plate on. Very cool!!!  Only prob with it is the same as with all .36/.38 conversions. .357 in a .375 bore.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 03:07:06 AM »
That kit is what got me into "conversions".  Wish I still had it, that was back in '86 or '87! Two screws hold the plate on. Very cool!!!  Only prob with it is the same as with all .36/.38 conversions. .357 in a .375 bore.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

  It would seem to me that screwing the recoil plate to the frame would be the only correct way to do a conversion. I bought a Kirst conversion for my 1860 Uberti and the cylinder hangs up when the open part of the recoil plate catches on the flutes in the rear of the cylinder. This happens because the recoil plate is free to move around. This problem could be reduced if the sharp edges on the parts were radiused, but there's still going to be some drag. I realize that Kirst makes there gated conversion to be "drop in" because very few people have the resources to properly attach the recoil plate to the frame.
  Have other people noticed this to be a problem with Kirst gated conversions and if so how have they dealt with it?

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/1860-colt-army.html    This link to the Kirst web site will help to illustrate what I'm talking about.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 03:22:49 AM by Yolla Bolly Brad »
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2015, 11:27:40 AM »
Quote
.357 in a .375 bore.

They solved that problem in the 1860s.  That's why we have heeled bullets that are as big as the chamber and still fit inside the case.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2015, 12:38:37 PM »
Hi, I have the Kirst 32 S&W conversion cylinder for the Remington 1863 Pocket revolver. It has some issues being 100% reliable in the 1863. The problem is that the rear recoil plate moves some where there are sometimes fail to fire issues. Kirst discontinued selling this conversion cylinder. Replacing it with the Howell conversion cylinder that has 5 firing pins solved all the problems. My Kirst cylinder is now a collector's item.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 01:55:52 PM »
  With the Remington design allowing for quick cylinder changing the Howell type converter is probably the way to go. Colt open top type revolvers really require a gated recoil plate, unless you want to pull the barrel off for every reload.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 03:47:43 PM »
Yolla; The Colt wouldn't necessarily need to be gated.  Mazo's version could be simply cut out at the recoil shield, allowing loading from the rear.  So long as you don't point it up to the sky while cocking, it should run fine, being that when in battery there's no chamber aligned with the loading port.  The issue then becomes extraction-- If spent cases don't fall out, you need something to poke them out.  Low pressure loads help prevent cases from staying put initially, but I would imagine that fouling could make for the need to push them out.  There is the choice of removing the loading lever and installing a conversion type ejector rod, or carrying a stick.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 03:57:33 PM »
Mazo; it looks like the bolt has been really chewing into that cylinder something fierce.  It's dropping a little bit early, but that doesn't explain why it appears to be digging holes in the cylinder.  Or has it merely been cycled a million times or so?  The drag lines on the opposite (aft) sides of the lock notches are odd too-- Maybe the bolt wasn't fully clearing the cylinder as it began rotating?  A new bolt and/or hammer cam may be indicated, bolt drop timing notwithstanding-- You want that bolt fully clear of the cylinder's major diameter before the cylinder begins to rotate.

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 04:39:53 PM »
Yolla; The Colt wouldn't necessarily need to be gated.  Mazo's version could be simply cut out at the recoil shield, allowing loading from the rear.  So long as you don't point it up to the sky while cocking, it should run fine, being that when in battery there's no chamber aligned with the loading port.  The issue then becomes extraction-- If spent cases don't fall out, you need something to poke them out.  Low pressure loads help prevent cases from staying put initially, but I would imagine that fouling could make for the need to push them out.  There is the choice of removing the loading lever and installing a conversion type ejector rod, or carrying a stick.

  I wouldn't consider a gun to be very practical if it was so finicky that you couldn't point it up or jostle it while cocking.  I'm straying from my original intent for posting. I wanted to know if anybody else had problems with Kirst gated conversions hanging up?








P.
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« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 05:19:36 PM by Yolla Bolly Brad »
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 07:51:45 PM »
YB Brad, you may have posted a a separate thread, but this is one I started describing my first conversion gun. The gun is just as I got it; yes, it appears like there are serious timing problems. This is something I would attend to before ever shooting it. As I said, it was told to me the gun was a stage prop gun, fired only blanks. Probably worked OK for that, but wouldn't be much fun firing bullets! {:(

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2015, 02:17:18 AM »
Mazo,
       Looks like I got off subject to your original posts. Thanks for putting up the pictures, they were of great interest to me.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2015, 02:10:28 PM »
Not a problem, happens all the time here!  ->i I'm glad you enjoyed the pictures. I just wish I had been into black powder stuff when those kits came out. It seems to me that they were about $50.00 or so at the time?

Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2015, 03:43:18 PM »
Look at all the hand tooling marks. I bet every part of that gun was pretty much built and fitted by hand.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2015, 05:45:09 PM »
Quote
I wouldn't consider a gun to be very practical if it was so finicky that you couldn't point it up or jostle it while cocking.

Fair enough.  Consider now the J. H. Dance and Brothers revolver which had no recoil shield at all, and was known to be converted;
http://www.icollector.com/Rare-Confederate-Dance-Brothers-Cartridge-Conversion-Revolver_i14555120

Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: Early Colt conversion
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2015, 05:11:34 PM »
That kit is what got me into "conversions".  Wish I still had it, that was back in '86 or '87! Two screws hold the plate on. Very cool!!!  Only prob with it is the same as with all .36/.38 conversions. .357 in a .375 bore.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

  It would seem to me that screwing the recoil plate to the frame would be the only correct way to do a conversion. I bought a Kirst conversion for my 1860 Uberti and the cylinder hangs up when the open part of the recoil plate catches on the flutes in the rear of the cylinder. This happens because the recoil plate is free to move around. This problem could be reduced if the sharp edges on the parts were radiused, but there's still going to be some drag. I realize that Kirst makes there gated conversion to be "drop in" because very few people have the resources to properly attach the recoil plate to the frame.
  Have other people noticed this to be a problem with Kirst gated conversions and if so how have they dealt with it?

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/1860-colt-army.html    This link to the Kirst web site will help to illustrate what I'm talking about.

If the teeth are hitting the gate you may need to contact Kirst. This doesn't usually happen. as for the ring floating; it should stay relatively stationary as long as the foot of the ring was properly adjusted to your revolver.