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Author Topic: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44  (Read 6375 times)

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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 06:23:52 PM »
Dear Pugilist,
            Firstly a very WARM        (D@            Where the knowledge of things pertaining to the use, Performance, and History of Black Powder Percussion revolvers is Encylopedic!  And the advice FREE!  There is probably an accumulated several Hundred Years of total experience among the combined members, and most are friendlier than a Spotted Pup!
            I, Personally, have shot only Pietta Revolvers since at least 1988, and have nothing but praise for their reliability and strength. I began with twin Eight-Inchers in 1988, and lost them during a rather messy divorce in 2003.  I was out of state when the Divorce became final, and it was the only time I wished I believed in VOODOO!  For I'd have made a clay figure of the Bitch, and stuck LOTS of pins in it!  I now have three Sheriff's Models, and I really like the shorter barrels on them.  The eight Inchers are a mite Muzzle Heavy for most people. 
            While I have not personally seen any originals shortened in this way, I have always had a profound respect for the ingenuity of man, and know that there MUST have been "Gentlemen Who Went In Harms Way," and thought up little dodges that would, "Give Them An Edge!"Having a slightly shorter barrelled revolver would, in my Humble Opinion, have definitely been, "An Edge!"
            When Edward C Judson, (More commonly known as Ned Buntline!) presented Wyatt Earp with a 12" barrelled revolver, he gave similar guns to other noted frontiersmen.  Most straightway took them to a gunsmith and shortened them to a more realistic length.  I believe that Bat Masterson shortened his to 4.75", which was a length that became very popular, "Out West." Being the same length as the ejector rod housing!
            The truth has been muddied considerably, firstly by Dime Novel Authors, and lastly by "Hollywierd!"  The whole idea of "Fast Draw," came about in my opinion, because it was common in the journalistic Parlance of the 1860's, when writing about a Gunman of some Notoriety, to say of this person, that he was, "Quick to Shoot!"  This did NOT MEAN he was fast on the draw!  It meant he was a bad-tempered Son-of-a-Bitch, who was liable to resort to the use of Deadly Force, at very little provocation, especially if he had had a few drinks!!!  The writers who made up the scripts for early Western "Oaters," must have thought that they would try and get some realism into their scripts, so must have thought to themselves, "Lets look up some of the Old Newspaper accounts of what these guys got up to!"  They read, "Quick to shoot," and immediately translated it into, "Quick on the Draw!"  We who are interested in the TRUTH of History, have suffered from this Romantic Claptrap ever since! So in case you have not guessed by now,
"THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS, "FAST DRAW," IN THE OLD WEST!"  If a man knew trouble was a-coming, he reached for a shotgun or rifle! (If he had any sense at all!)  Pistols were carried because they could be carried easily, did not interfere with a man walking about his daily duties, and were mighty comforting things to have around, if the "Fecal Matter DID hit the Rotating Air Circulating Device!" Amongst Law Officers it became slightly, "Bad Manners," to deliberately "SHOW"  a concealed Weapon, and advertise that you were armed.  Some High Ranking Lawmen today hold to a similar view!  While not a law officer any more, I still carry a pistol every day, but mine is a short-barrelled (5.5" Sheriff's Model. Remington Black Powder Revolver.)  I have a load for this gun, that gets 945 fps with a .457 ball, and should I catch a person trying to kill someone, (Including myself!) I do believe that this load, taken Twixt Wind and water, would remove him from the Welfare Rolls Permanently!
            I am not bloodthirsty, and honestly hope that I never have to kill another man.  It can bring lots of trouble down on one. But
I don't want to cow down under the threat of some thug either!  So should some person be unwise enough to threaten my well being and my life, let the chips fall where they may!
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
            Percussion Revolvers killed very efficiently in the War of Northern Aggression, and will do so today with equal efficiency, if a
man takes the time and trouble to clean and load them with great care, and CONSISTANCY!!!  They are often legal to carry with one, in many states that would forbid one to carry a cartridge gun!  And a .44 caliber packs a very hearty punch, that if aimed Judiciously, will even discourage a Creature like a Mountain Lion, from chewing on your ankle!  (Or somewhere else!)
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Online Hawg

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2015, 07:13:27 PM »
Hermit summed it up best. Every C&B that Remington produced had a long barrel, Whether any were cut down during the period of use is debatable. Original sights were very low so as to hit a man on a horse or a horse at 75 yards. Pietta grips are very, very fat and have proud wood at the top of the frame which originals didn't have. Their Colt revolvers are the same way.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 07:15:46 PM »
Welcome, Pugilist.

I have both a Pietta and an Uberti, and other than some slight differences in grip shape and finish texture, I can't really tell the difference in the grips.  Dixie Gun Works, on the other hand, lists several Pietta and Uberti Remingtons, and one of the Piettas they have is listed as having "oversized grips" while others are not.  That would at least suggest that there are Piettas and then there are Piettas.  Dixie is the only place I've seen such a reference.

44 or 36?  Well if you don't plan to hunt with it, or to use it for self defense as some do, then it doesn't much matter.  Way back when, caliber was often selected with economy in mind, and thus we see past designations of caliber as resulting in X number of balls to the pound.  Shotgun gauges survive to this day as an example of that - 12 gauge means twelve bore-sized balls to the pound, etc.  Economy of powder usage goes similarly - it will cost slightly more then, both for powder and lead, to shoot a 44 than for a 36.  Today however we don't much concern ourselves with such.

For what it's worth, a 36 does still have a good "punch" to it, at both ends.  44 of course has more.  If you like recoil, then a 44 with heavier "conical" bullets is the way to go.  A 36 will be slightly "easier" for most people to shoot, all else being equal, due to the lighter recoil.  Shooting ball in both calibers doesn't result in a "lot" of recoil no matter how you look at it.  The Remington 36 will accept a few grains more powder than the Colt 36s, as it has deeper chambers, i.e. it has a higher maximum charge capacity, if that matters.

Speaking of conical bullets, you'll likely have to modify (as in open up) the loading cutout in the frame of a Pietta to load conicals on the gun.  That is, in 44 caliber at least.  I don't know about the 36.

For easiest loading in either caliber, swaged round ball does it (no sprue to bother with).

There has been a lot of discussion of Pietta or Uberti and their quality, but I sometimes chime in to remind people that, unless you opt for the thousand dollar Pietta "Shooter's Model" or the thousand dollar Pedersoli, these repros are cheap guns.  Correction; they are very cheap guns, and as such they are subject to a number of possible problems.  If you get lucky, you'll generally not notice the problems.  They range from sharp edges in annoying places, dubious wood-to-metal fit, to poor "timing" to gritty, creepy triggers, to soft steel in places that should be hardened and poor finishes in places that should receive more care, to loading rams that gouge the edge of the chamber mouth if you're seating close to the cylinder face.

That sounds pretty horrible, doesn't it?  Most of the time they do OK, but they could all use some sort of improvement.  This has resulted in endless hours, and millions of words, spent on the subject of tuning and improving these guns.  You spend that thousand dollars up front though, and I'll assume you won't have to worry about any of that.  So there's the trade-off.  As you’ll see on the vendor sites that show customer reviews, most owners of these cheaper guns find them more than satisfactory for the price and as you've seen already, some find them sublime.

Offline old fogey

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2015, 09:29:08 PM »
Pietta's also are among the least expensive revolvers you can start with (not the cheapest, but some of the nicest like this http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1776985&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D1776981%26type%3Dproduct&WTz_l=YMAL%3BIK-218772). Happy shooting!


Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2015, 09:52:36 PM »
Pietta has come a long, long way in the last decade. Everything is CNC milled and parts from one gun now "plug n' play" on another...which is why the extra cylinders they sell these days are drop-in fit.
Their bluing...once sketchy...is now top-rate. Better than Uberti's, IMHO. The Piettas ARE physically bigger and the grip feels fatter too, but surprisingly the knuckle clearance (or lack thereof) on the trigger guard is about the same...I still have to do the "pinky curl" on my Piettas.
I no longer own any Uberti Remmies but have a couple Armi San Paolos (ASP; later produced by Euroarms and also branded by Lyman once upon a time) that have the same slim, small stature as the Ubertis. I find the ASP Remmies the best IMHO but being no longer made, it's a moot point...
As was mentioned, there is no official record of anything less than a 8" barrel NMA production. The .36 "Belt Pistol" produced by Pietta is the exact same frame and grip size as the NMA...only the barrel is shorter. In fact, the cylinder is also the same diameter, just under-bored.
Most of them shoot .375 balls although the .380's can usually be shoved in there and shave a nice ring, to boot!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline NineMilePete

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2015, 10:17:31 AM »
Hi.  I have this same listing on Guns International. I've established a reputation as selling a few revolvers on that site.

Offline BOOMSTICK BRUCE

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 03:18:22 PM »
i have 2 ubertis one pietta (the engraved one cabeles has on sale) and an ASM. i love them all. the ubertis do have a smaller grip and i have to do the pinkie tuck but not with my asm and pietta. also i have large hands (i wear 2XL gloves)

i recommend the .45... why .45????

because they dont make a .46....

and anything worth putting a hole it is worth putting a big hole in..
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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2015, 05:01:18 PM »
Dear Friends,
            While on the subjects of Grip Size, DD4Life, mentioned that "People were smaller in those days!  This COULD apply if we were talking about men from the 1500's, but I believe that this idea does not really apply to men from just 150 years ago.  I believe the reason that this fable continues is because ONLY the clothing from Tiny People has survived!  When Dad got a new pair of pants, or Mom made him a new shrt, the old shirt or pants,  was passed onto his oldest son, and so on down the line, until it was no-longer decent, and then Mom used it for cleaning and dusting the house, or Dad used it to clean his rifle and Pistol.(If he HAD a Pistol.)
            Wyatt Earp was supposed to be at lest 5'-10", and Dallas Stoudenmire was said to be over Six Foot!  A small man like Yours Truly, (5'-7" and 157 Lbs. Soaking Wet!) would have still been able to pass on his clothing to his son, or  younger brother, and in time such clothing would have become worn out, and eventually destroyed, when it was used as cleaning materials!  You will notice That all pairs of both ladies and Gentlemen's shoes that have survived, are really small, and after that person died, if the shoes were in pretty good shape, thay may have been saved, just in case a neighbor had a child that could use them. Some may have been kept out of Curiosity by a surviving relative, and by Heaven Knows What Means, the eventually finished up in a local or National useum.
            In England's "Tower of London," In the White Tower, which is six floors of Weapons and armament, there are suits of Armour, Two of which belonged to King Henry VIII!  One when he was a younger and more athletic man, and the second when he had begun to develope a noticeable "Paunch!"  I never realized before I saw that suit of Armour, that steel could be tailored to the shape of a man.  But looking at that suit of Armour, and can clearly see that King Henry's devotion to good food, had caused him to look almost five months Pregnant!!!!  Yet he was obviously taller than I was, and at that age I was 5'-8"!  (I have shrunk a bit since I got old!!!)
            In a museum in Arkansas, I did once see a Confederate Officers Frock Coat, and the original owner must have been quite a
tall man, and rather broad shouldered as well!  I got talking to a Gentleman who was quite elderly, and he was a member of the Museum Staff. He told me that a lot of the uniforms were the brown Homespun color, but had originally been Confederate Grey. They discovered this, when they examined them closely, and in the seams, under the linings they found the cloth WAS grey, but exposure to light over the years, had bleached the grey out, as the dyes used back then, did not have the staying Qualities of more modern dyes!
            Going back to the days of the Crusades, King Richard, Known as Richard Coure de Lyon, (Richard of the Lion's Heart.) Aside from  being as Queer as a Nine Dollar Bill,( His wife was known even to the Yeomanry of England as, "The Virgin Queen.) He was very strong on Furthering Christianity, and loved nothing better than Slaughtering Muslims! (We could use him to-day I sometimes think? (Come Back Richard, All is Forgiven!) It is said in old writing that he was a tall man!  Hollywierd always leaves out his,"Sexual
Preferences!"  When they make movies about Robert Locksley. (Supposed to have been Robin Hood's real name!)  I have twice seen a Movie about England's favourite Outlaw, where in the end, When King Richard returns, he was played by Sean Connery! The Place where his Evil Cousin,  King John, (Who wanted SO BADLY to be king!) Signed The Magna Carta, Runnymede, is now an open Grassy space, where West Londoners go on week-ends,(When the British climate makes the day profitable for such enterprise?) I used to take my girlfriends there for a day's outing, occasionally.  (When I could afford the bus & Train fare that is!)  Ah , Memories!
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:42:25 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline pugilist

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2015, 08:55:35 PM »
Well, at 5'4" I'm closer to Annie Oakley's height.  She was 5' even.  I'm not too sure if I want the pinkie tuck, but my glove size is small so maybe Uberti grips will be fine for me. I just found a local place that has 1858 Remmies in stock!  BUT, it looks like they have only the Traditions 12 inch barrel, Traditions conversions and Taylor & Co conversions.  At least I can go there and handle them, but if Uberti grips are smaller than Pietta's, then where do Traditions and Taylor & Co fit in?  Waitaminute, isn't Traditions just the shipper for Pietta and Taylor's the shipper for Uberti?     

Offline G Dog

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2015, 09:20:32 PM »
Maybe something in .36 ?  The Pietta Remington .36 would not do, big grips and heavy.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 09:31:14 PM by G Dog »
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline pugilist

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2015, 09:59:29 PM »
Maybe something in .36 ?  The Pietta Remington .36 would not do, big grips and heavy.

I don't know.  The Uberti in .44 is sounding better all the time, but I think I'll go and handle the Traditions (Pietta) at the local place and see how the grips feel. 

Offline BOOMSTICK BRUCE

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2015, 10:17:28 PM »
generally yes, pietta is always traditions, tayolrs is both sometimes... on the taylors look all over the gun, if you see an octagon with a "U" inside its uberti, pietta will have "FAP" in a triangle
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Offline pugilist

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2015, 03:08:25 PM »
Dang, I called the local place and they don't carry anything historical.  They carry only modern stuff.  In fact, every place I called only have modern firearms.  I might have to bite the bullet and order one online just to handle it!

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2015, 03:28:20 PM »
Well, I would still talk to NineMilePete. He will tell you if any problems, may even have a return policy....usually a non-shooting policy, but at least you could handle the gun. Most it would cost is the return postage, still ahead of Dixie's price. Just my 2 cents worth.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Two Newbie Questions: Uberti or Pietta and .36 vs .44
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2015, 03:36:44 PM »
Pugilist. Man, just order a 5.5 Remington form Cabella's.  They are light and quick and you will love it.  Nothing heavy about that gun and the grips will fit a smallish hand to perfection. Just do it.  You can thank me for the advice later.
 ])M
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.