Author Topic: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?  (Read 15142 times)

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Offline Classanr

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2014, 01:52:20 PM »
Could work, as long as the "pips" on the spring ends were not finished.  Specifically, that enough metal was allowed to remain for when some guys intent on making this work could custom-fit the final product, then test-fire.
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Offline Len

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2014, 02:15:20 PM »
Yes, no problem leaving lots of material at chosen places provided the fitter has grinding tools (such as Dremel) and is aware of the need to keep the material cool when grinding.

Offline Saranac Sam

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2014, 03:37:54 PM »
The old gunsmith sent me to Paul Gamache, of street rod fame (he's been building 'em for 45 years, has many many of his cars on front covers of Hot Rod and magazines of the like - "I have more, but not enough walls to put them on").

Paul and I worked on this spring for several hours.  Eventually, we got a fit.

What we discovered is that the spring:

(a) goes in only one way
(b) is different lengths on each leg even when made to work
(c) has different (size and location) dimple/pockets for the tips to recess into (one on the lever bar, one on the action itself)
(d) and the dimple/pockets were prick-punched into place by hand, in a non-uniform manner
(e) and that without the action it would be impossible to make (or even repair) a spring that would work.

What we did:

Paul welded a new "blob" on the broken tip, careful to heat-sink the rest of the spring.  Then we carefully hand-shapped the tip to fit the gun.

Naturally, the first few attempts didn't work.
Paul welded more "blob" over his previous work, and went back to the grinder.
No joy.

So Paul, trying to save time, said "let's just flip the spring over."
I said it wouldn't work.  I knew, because I had become bosom-buddies with this spring for many hours.
But Paul was "up to the challenge" (this being the first actual smithing job he'd ever done on a genuine Wild West Artifact) so I knew when to let the guy just plain have fun.  I wandered over to the 1943 Ford Woody that was all in pieces being restored, and marvelled at other craft in various stages of almost-completeness or somedayweshouldstartthisproject-ness.

After about 15 more minutes of learning what this particular spring wants to do in this particular gun, the spring won.  Paul finally relented and flipped the spring back over.

Honest, the spring is flat both ways.  However, the spring will not lay flat when put in backwards.  Make that "flipped over", so that the pip on the right side is going into the dimple on the left side.  Spring will stay in, but will not lay flat that way.  And it must lay flat for the stock and action to be remarried.  They've been in trial separation for too long and want to get back together to make new smoke.

Len, I'd have to send you the action along with the spring so you could make a new spring that fit this gun.  I have the feeling that somebody between you and me would be greatly upset if I did that, and I'd never see the action again.  Although you might get a boot on the door asking why you are importing war materials.

Anyway, we have the original spring working again.

  Sounds like a 12-pack experience for two guys bent over a vice staring at a piece of hot metal.  A good Sunday afternoon.  So the thing is now working  (T^
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Offline Classanr

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2014, 04:04:28 PM »
...  So the thing is now working  (T^

90% credit goes to this forum, 5% to my persistence, 5% to a guy who can weld a hair to a gnat's hind end without the gnat suffering any ill effects.

Looks like rain here Tue-Fri. Sat I am out of state, so pencilled in is a Sunday Shoot at the BP range with this piece 'o history.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline Classanr

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2014, 02:56:11 PM »
I was going to shoot the 1887 10-gauge shotgun today, Sunday.  Got a bit sidetracked, and now it is 3:15pm and hotter than I wish to stand in the sun to mess with a rebuilt 127yr old shotgun, so I'm going to sit on the porch with my favorite spouse and calm down.

In anticipation of loading the shells, this happened:

http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php/topic,7799.0.html
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Offline Classanr

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Range report on the true 1885 Remington 10g SxS
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2014, 04:38:21 PM »
Range Report

Quiet at the range, surrounded by woods, I was the only one there.  Had to use 4w-Lo to get access.

To start off, something always goes wrong with Plan A.  This time, one of the test rounds was loaded with a fired primer.  Silly me, I presumed that grabbing a primer from the factory box would mean that it is good to go.  Nope, it had been fired.  So, the shell loaded for 65/65 powder/shot by volume will be disassembled, reloaded, and test-fired at some other date.

I set the target at 20 yds (3ft wide by 4ft tall).  I set the dB meter 3ft to the right of the muzzle, on the same plane as the muzzle, to measure muzzle noise.

I used a 16guage with a .410 insert as a baseline.  I fired one .410 to get a sound reading.  118dB.  Ambient was approximately 40dB with occasional max noises of 50dB.  118dB is a relatively mild report for gunshots, but still loud enough to warrant using ear protection.  A sharp hand clap is 90dB.  Therefore, .410 is not a "stealth" shotgun.

Test rounds were assembled using Remington SP 10ga hulls cut to 2.60", primed with Winchester 209.

Wads were Ballistic Products "Multi-Metal" hulls, cut down to form a cup size exactly the volume of the shot.  Essentially, this trimmed off most of the 4 petals.

Overshot cards were  20mm "punched" (actually, I drilled) from cereal box.

Test rounds were loaded with #8 shot and BlackMZ.  BlackMZ was rammed on a hand press with all my strength.  I sqoze until the powder would no longer squeeze.  BlackMZ loves compression.

Filled the cup with shot, pressed down the overshot card, sealed with waterglass.
 
I fired test round "50/50" in the 10ga, using left barrel.  Recoil was akin to the .410, and smoke was ain to the .410 (in other words, hardly anything at all).  Surprisingly the report was 118dB; and the shot pattern almost identical to the .410

Consequently, I conclude that 50/50 in a 10ga with a cut-down Ballistic Products Multi-Metal wad is the minimum one would wish to use in a 10ga.  It can be considered a "very light but effective load."  I would not hesitate to allow a budding shootist to fire this load within 20 yards of a target, the only prerequisite being said budding shootist could keep the gun steady and up for sufficient time to track, aim, and fire.  This 1887 has 32" of barrel, but balances at the end of the short forearm.  Probably not a kid gun.

This is where I looked at the primer of the 65/65 test round and emitted a mild report of my own.
I cannot give a report on 65/65 because there was no possible way to make a report today with that test round.

The 80/80 was an entirely different experience.  The muzzle lifted 4", the shoulder pushed back, and there was smoke all over the place.  120dB on the meter.  Wow, only 2dB more for all that commotion!  Most of the pellets went into a 24" circle.

By the books, the Black Powder 10ga is *supposed* to have 110gr (vol) under 1oz shot as a "light load".   My test load 50/50 is 50gr powder (vol) under 263gr (.6 oz weight) shot.  In comparison, a .410 has .6875 oz of shot.

In neither test case did the test wad hit the target.  The .410, however, send the wad all the way to the target.

The 80/80 single shot heated the barrel 6" from the chamber.  One shot and it was obvious that copious heat is being generated by the powder, and the most efficient part of the burn is 6" down the barrel.  It was not "Ouch, that's hot", but more like "Whoa!  That got uncomfortable really fast!" followed by an inclination to spray water on that part of the barrel before touching it again.  If I shoot 80/80, it will be with gloves on.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline Classanr

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2014, 11:42:35 AM »
OK, her she be on her rug.
She's actually an 1887 model, by serial number in the last of the production run, getting factory-installed new-model 1889 hammers.

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Offline Hawg

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2014, 01:39:34 PM »
Looks good.
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Offline mazo kid

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2014, 03:30:26 PM »
Glad to see you got the old girl up-and-running! Nice work!

Offline Len

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2014, 03:36:18 PM »
So now you can ride shotgun on Stagecoach!

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2014, 03:52:23 PM »
!

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2014, 06:20:48 AM »
Classanr, Very nice! I like it!  {?|
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Offline Classanr

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2014, 11:18:58 AM »
This project never would have come together without the Forum's help.
Thank you for the many who added hints, solutions, and encouragements.

You would be amazed at how gentle she is with 80gr under 80gr.
Unlike my 12's, which I now only shoot with Knoxx stocks because they *kick*, this gal *pushes*.  It's a long push, to be sure, but I can shoot her wearing a t-shirt.

'Course, she weighs a whole lot more than my 12s, so that has to be factored in for comfort.

As for a coach gun, she's so long in the leg that I'd be smacking the wheelers just swinging her from one side to the other.  Nope, don't feel like cutting her down.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Did Classanr purchase a true 1885 Remington 10g SxS?
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2014, 12:20:51 PM »
Cut her down?!  {_K {:(