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Offline 6fingers

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comparison with the 1858
« on: March 15, 2015, 06:43:38 PM »
How the ROA compare with the Remington 1858 in dimensions and weight?
I know it hefts like a tank in my hand, and though I've never held one, the 1858 looks like it has more finesse. 

is there much difference in the two?

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Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 06:54:19 AM »
I just know that there is more "Meat/Steel" on the ROA.
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Offline rodwha

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 04:34:09 PM »
My Ruger is a 7.5" and my Remington 1858 is a 5.5" Pietta. I wouldn't think the 8" version would be too dissimilar. I do know my Ruger holds about 5 grns extra.
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Offline 6fingers

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 04:51:40 PM »
My Ruger is a 7.5" and my Remington 1858 is a 5.5" Pietta. I wouldn't think the 8" version would be too dissimilar. I do know my Ruger holds about 5 grns extra.
My Buddy has a 7.5 ss ROA, and it felt like a Walker to me! 
I'm looking at buying an 1858, 8" bbl and I was hoping that it wouldn't be too unwieldy.
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Offline G Dog

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 04:57:26 PM »
An 8" Remington is in no sense "unwieldy".  They handle wonderfully. 
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Offline Omnivore

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 05:45:23 PM »
Quote
I'm looking at buying an 1858, 8" bbl and I was hoping that it wouldn't be too unwieldy.

Naw; so long as you still have all six fingers on your shooting hand, you're good to go!

Seriously though, Americans were a little bit smaller, on average, in the 1860s than they are today.  Unless you have strangely small hands, you'll be fine with the eight incher.  My little sister is 5' 4" with a small frame and small hands and she can handle it OK.  Though she uses two hands to cock the piece she can still fire it one-handed (and they make reduced power springs for these guns, though I don't use them and wouldn't recommend them).  Anyway, there is plenty of room for grip frame reduction if such were absolutely necessary.

Barrel length and grip size though are of course two completely separate issues.  The original Army models had eight inch barrels, and so I think a person should at least try the full length barrel.  You're that much closer to your target that way too, eh?

Online Hawg

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 05:47:31 PM »
8 inch Remington's aren't balanced as well as a Colt but they are not unwieldy at all.
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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 06:14:58 PM »
Dear Friends,
            I used on a very regular basis for fourteen years a pair of the 8" barrelled Remington's.  I had been used to carrying shorter barrelled guns, and at first they felt a mite barrel heavy! I soon found the advantage of that longer barrel, for it kept the front sight right where it should be.  You'll soon get used to the, "Bit extra Out front," and you'll find that if your sight are properly set, you'll be hitting things at ranges that you'll surprise yourself with!  The Remington Design was W-A-Y ahead of it's time.  Our's are really copies of the 1863 Model. The early ones did not have the safety notches for example.  If you are a History Buff, the one here who REALLY knows what he's talking about is Our Hawg! Anything he can't tell you off the top of his head, he'll only have to lean out of his armchair to get the correct book, to be able to read you Chapter & Verse!
            One tip, if you are going to carry it, when out hiking or whatever, get a holster that carries it Butt to the front! (A La HIckok.)  With a Long Barreled gun, if you wear it butt to the rear, you'll be scratching yourself in the armpit before you get the muzzle clear of leather.  Best way really is for the long barrelled gun on on the weak side, crossdraw from the front strong side!  BE CAREFULL if you wear one butt to the front, and you are sitting in a Pick-Up Truck.  The seat material of the back of the seat, CAN Cock the gun! You may not notice it at first.  When you DO NOTICE, an icy feeling will go right through you!  I used to carry mine in a  double rig, butt's forward, and I took the Ranch Pick-up to go change the water lines on the Alfalfa Field.  I got to where I had to put my waders on, unbuckled the gunbelt, and laid it on the seat, bent down to pull my boots off, and saw that my right gun was fully cocked in the holster!  For a second or so, I was too scared to move! Then I took a deep breath and went around to the passenger side, opened that door, and drew the pistol out of the holster with my thumb on the hammer!  Only then was I able to breathe!
            I KNEW how light the trigger was on that particular Revolver!  As I bent down to pull that first boot off. I was looking straight up the barrel! of the cocked gun!  Scared seven kinds of You-Know-What outa me!  Made me think of all the times I had driven from the Ranch to Twin Falls, wearing the guns, and had never noticed how easily the back of the seat could cock a weapon.
After that, when I was in my own truck, I just wrapped the gun belt around the steering column, and positioned the holsters in such a way, that at least One gun was positioned butt toward me for easy reach!
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 08:35:26 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
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Offline G Dog

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 06:27:16 PM »
8 inch Remington's aren't balanced as well as a Colt but they are not unwieldy at all.


Speaking personally,  for .44 C&B balance and handling  --  the Colt 1860 eight inch is in a (first) class all its own. 
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline robertmcw

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2015, 02:09:00 PM »
I have all three of them, the 1860 colt (both Pietta and a Uberti), a 1858 Remington (Uberti) and an Old Army Ruger.  All have the longer barrels (7-8”). 
I am in my mid sixties and even I am in pretty shape, the age is starting to take its toll as I am not as fast I used to be nor as strong as I was but I am OK.
I have shot the Colts and the Old Army a LOT but I have not shot the 1858 Remington yet but it is loaded sitting on my bedroom stand just in case as I have wife’s nephew is living with us and in Texas it illegal to keep a pre 1899 gun handy if you have a child under 17 around the house.  It is OK to keep a C&B pistol handy as an C&B pistol is not classed an pre 1899 handgun.
With that said, I like for handling the Colt Uberti hand down.  From my opinion that is the best point and shoot pistol ever made.  The caps do get stuck time to time with the spent cap making necessary to pull the pin and disassemble the whole gun to clean the jam and than put it back together before you can shoot again.  That could then be a “one shot” weapon.   It is light and I really like the lines.  Once I loaded the Uberti with 35 grains of tipple three and a wonder wad over a ball and spaced twenty paces, turned and fired at a 6” tree.  The tree lived but the hole was just where it was supposed to be.  I prefer the Uberti over the Pietta in my hand.
My ex wife gave my Old Army in the mid 1980’s.  During that time I shot it a lot.  After the divorce, I put away and put in the safe.  A few years back I decided to shoot it again but it seems the nipples had seized and I could not get them out.  Ruger told me to send it back and a few weeks later it came back with a new cylinder.  Ruger paid the cost of the new cylinder and the shipping.  That is service!!!  A year went by and I asked if I could buy a new second cylinder but they said they out of cylinders.  I bought two cylinders at Evilbay and it all three index up just fine.  Then I ordered three after cylinders from Classcballistx and they were required to be redone so they would index right but Edo make it right.  A lot of people have issues with Edo but he is OK by me.
With the Classcballistx cylinder I can cram 45 grains of 45 grains of 3fff Swiss and with a wonder wad and a round ball even I need to shave the tops of the lead just a little but that could be the way I am loading the charge.  When I shoot the gun my grips hurt my hand but I can feel the ball is going the fastest round ball pistol I have ever shot.  With 35 grains that not an issue.  I think if I were to skip the wonder ball I could cram 50 grains of 3fff Swiss and the ball would going about 1200 – 1250 feet per second or more and that would be a nice deer killer at 35 to 50 yards.  I have a choreograph on the list.
I do not like the grips as I would like to have a little bigger grip and it would hard to swap a new cylinder in a fire fight as it is awkward to swap the cylinders. 
With the Old Army the spent caps clear the frame just fine so there is no problem there.
I have not shot the 1858 Remington yet but I did buy two extra cylinders and have loaded all of the cylinders with of 40 grains of 3fff Swiss without the wonder wads over 477 round balls.  We were forced to move last year as the state took my house for an overpass and we bought a replacement house but all of my stuff in still storage in the Morgan shed and I cannot find my black power stuff so I will not shoot the 1858 Remington until I can find my cleaning stuff including the loading stand. 
I do like the feel in my hand of the 1858 Remington and I do like the fact that is easier to swap cylinders of of all the 1858 Remington of all three pistols.  The Colt seems to be lightest and the Old Army is the heaviest.
I wish that Ruger had made the grip would just a bigger and that Ruger would deigned the loading lever easier to swap a new cylinder. 
I understand the Pietta has the slowest twist and the slower twist is for round balls and a faster twist is for both round balls and conicals.  Here is cool video about the difference and the series:



I guess at the end of the day, if you are not worried about jamming the gun with spent caps, the Colt wins.  If you are not worried about the quick swap cylinder, the Old Army wins but if you are worried out the quick swap cylinder, the 1858 Remington (Uberti) would my choice. 

Combat distance is generally considered anywhere from point-blank range to five yards out.  Swiss 3fff black powder with 35 – 40 grains and a round ball would do the trick assuming it goes off and won’t jam (35 with a wonder wad and 40 without) would be a great defense weapon.  I understand Texas laws have changed again and soon we able to display pistols openly if you have a CCW.  An 1858 Remington is exempt by law in Texas as a “handgun” IF you do NOT use fixed ammo.  I am toying with getting an 1858 Remington 5 ½ barrel with two spare cylinder rig for defense purposes for being on the street.  But on the other hand, I may just get a CCW.  The jury is out on that.  The average beat cop really does not understand or know firearms laws that well.  You know what they say, you can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride.  I will keep you posted.
RM
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 05:48:41 PM by robertmcw »

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2015, 07:54:42 PM »
Dear Robertmcw,
            I am sold solid on the (So Called.) 1858.  The reproductions we get from either Uberti or Pietta are in fact copies of the New Model Army of 1863. The date 1858, was in fact, the date of the patent that was issued for the way in which Remington's held the base pin in place, by the loading lever.  My very first Percussion revolver was a copy of the 1860 Army, and it almost drove me to suicide. That pistol was the, "Ring-Tailed-Wonder-of-the-World," when it came to dropping spent caps into the guts of the bloody thing! Then one night at the gun club,(The Marylebone Rifle & Pistol Club, in London, England!)  A nice young guy came onto the range with a cap & Ball revolver of a design I had not seen before. I watched him load it, and then he politely turned to me, and asked if I minded him shooting it!  I think he was just being polite, and had seen I was not wearing hearing protection. I watched in utter amazement, as he fired six rounds without any malfunctions of any kind! Then I walked up to him, and asked if I might examine the revolver.  He smilingly handed it to me! Then he took it from me and removed the cylinder for me.  THAT surprised the Hell outa me, for it was done so quickly and simply! As I        further examined the revolver, I saw the narrow slot in the recoil shield, that the nose of the hammer had to pass through, to strike the cap.  I at once saw that there was, "NO WAY IN THE WORLD, FOR A SPENT CAP TO GET BACK THROUGH THAT SLOT AND JAM UP THE GUN'S MECHANISM!"  I made up my mind, that if the Good Lord was kind enough, to send me a man, stupid enough to want to buy my 1860 Army, I'd get rid of the Bloody Thing, and with the funds thus accrued, purchase a replacement, of the Remington Persuasion!  The Lord was kind enough to supply such a fool, and since that first Remington, I HAVE NEVER LOOKED BACK!
            I believe that while a lot of men say the Colt style revolver, "Points Better," I think it is actually a matter of familiarity with the gun.  I had a pair of eight inch barreled Remington's, that I got in 1988, and I carried them and shot them regularly for, FOURTEEN YEARS, with no mechanical problems of any kind!  They were Pietta's, and I must have been lucky, because certain other more experienced members of this Forum, have said that in those days, Uberti, were considered to be the better of the two manufacturers!  Just lately it seems, Pietta's have taken the lead in finish and quality, and I now have three of their Sheriff's Models, one of which accompanies me every day, snug and warn beneath my left armpit, with spare pouched cylinders on my belt.  I have developed (Quite by accident, to be Perfectly Honest!) a Personal Defense Load,(PDL.) that I call my, "Medical Examiner's Special!" Because it is SO Powerful, as to convince me that any Thug, who gave me cause to defend myself with this load, would be so badly hurt, that the only Doctor who would be in a position to treat him, would be "The Medical Examiner,"  known in some States and Counties as, "The Coroner!" (At the poor fellow's Autopsy!)
            Wen I used the 8" barreled guns, I DID find them a little barrel heavy to begin with.  However they were such fine, reliable guns, that I soon became used to the extra barrel length.  When I went out of state in 2002, my Wife, chose to Divorce me, and in the process, either sold, gave away, or trashed a lot of my personal stuff, and it was not until I returned to Arizona in 2008, that I learned of the existence of the 5.5" barreled, "Sheriff's Models." I'm a little Old Guy, and have quite small hands, (In keeping with the rest of me!) and I find the balance and "Heft," of these guns suits me, "Down To The Ground!" Richard, whose,Handle Momentarily escapes me, but is something like, "SSBQ73??," Chronographed my PDL for me, with his own Sheriff's Model, and got very good ballistics with the load.  The slowest round was 922 FPS., and the fastest was 985 FPS., for an average of 945.55 FPS!  Not bad for a fairly short barreled Black Powder Revolver, designed over 150 years ago!
            In Arizona, any person, Permanent Resident or Visitor to the state, may legally carry a weapon openly OR concealed, without the need for a permit!  I call this State, "The Pistoleero's Paradise."  There are other states that have adopted the same regulations, Wyoming is one for example, but I have the same feeling about Snow, as my Late Father did!
Dad used to say, "I like snow on the tops of Mountains, and on Christmas Cards, where I may admire it's Beauty, WITHOUT
HAVING TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE BLOODY STUFF!!!"  My Dear Father had lost a leg, during the Great War of, 1914-1918.
He was badly wounded at the Battle of the Somme, and the surgeons had to take off his left leg right from the hip bone! It seems that Gangrene had set in! So he walked on crutches for the rest of his life, and Wet leaves, and Snow on the sidewalks, made walking very hazzardous for him! 
            For your sake, I sincerely hope that the Great State of Texas, adopts laws, that will permit you to carry a Percussion Revolver, openly or concealed, whenever you wish to!  God Bless America! (And The NRA!)
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 08:30:22 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
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Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 10:05:13 AM »
The ROA is an amalgam borrowing things from the Colt SAA, the Whitney revolver and the Remington, and it is a big, beautiful beast.

Offline Dellbert

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 12:01:52 PM »
The ROA is all the above, but now for the price of one Ruger you can buy two Remington NMAs & about everything you need to go with them. May have a few dollars left. I noticed robertmcw said he used .477 round ball. Is that a miss print or actually the size ball you use in the ROA? If that be the case that size ball should work in the Uberti 44s. I been using .457 rb in my Pietta's with out any problems. Honestly I think the accuracy is better using the .457s. One more question, what kind of loading stand would you suggest? The one like Cabela's sells is said to be junk. I'd like to load the cylinder's of my 58s off the guns.
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Offline PaleHawkDown

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2015, 04:24:33 PM »
The ROA is all the above, but now for the price of one Ruger you can buy two Remington NMAs & about everything you need to go with them. May have a few dollars left. I noticed robertmcw said he used .477 round ball. Is that a miss print or actually the size ball you use in the ROA? If that be the case that size ball should work in the Uberti 44s. I been using .457 rb in my Pietta's with out any problems. Honestly I think the accuracy is better using the .457s. One more question, what kind of loading stand would you suggest? The one like Cabela's sells is said to be junk. I'd like to load the cylinder's of my 58s off the guns.

I remember having a chance to buy one for $250 and turning it down. Now I'd punch a nun for one in that price range.

Offline robertmcw

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Re: comparison with the 1858
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2015, 06:12:52 PM »
Dellbert, I made a miss print.  I should said .457.  Sorry and thanks,
RM