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Author Topic: 58 Restoration  (Read 1787 times)

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Offline Soiltec53

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58 Restoration
« on: March 10, 2015, 01:30:58 PM »
Decided to fix some of nicks and dents made by it being out of time (Hammer Dings) .  my old cylinder instead of trying to do new cylinder up grade. My 1858 Remington New Army was converted many moons ago. I'm sure the cylinder is Roland White type by S&W just no longer has patent stamped on it. Just the Bullet it takes was bit confusing. the gentlemen I got it from said it was 44 WCF and done at Winchester Factory I got it to go along with Marlin 1894 in 44-40 I have.  Well No! I researched it lot and that was first time I've ever heard the Win. did that type conversion on Pistol. But always good to check out if you have time. After looking and taking measurements of Cylinder and chamber areas along with careful check on Cartridge area rim. Came to conclusion after checking Cartridges of World data, the Cartridge that should fit most closely would be 44 Remington 44 Colt. Yes tried 44-40 , 45 Colt , 41 colt , 44 special. 44 Russian. since I had all of those type pistols at one time and still have the rounds in my cartridge collection. None fit. So yes have located 44 Remington  and 44 Colt cartridges. Also will be design new back plate that is missing on the old Boy , when I find more data in that area. Hope to first make one in sheet brass for try out. then maybe one in Irion or steel one. Anyone who has original Rem 1858 with Cartridge conversion. I would like any and all pictures of your pistol in that area or even measurement of your to help thanks ahead of time. Will post pictures of what I've discovered to help anyone else in same situation.  &j( 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 01:56:55 PM by Soiltec53 »

Offline Omnivore

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 03:55:35 PM »
I would have thought that the 44 Remington or 44 Colt would be the most likely cartridges for a Remington Army conversion cylinder, but then I don't know all that much.

Since the frame appears to be (mostly) unaltered, you could still use a percussion cylinder in it.  The rear corners of the cylinder cutout in the frame appear to have been squared off for some reason - maybe part of installing the conversion cylinder?  That seems odd to me.

That cylinder pin should not be coming clear of the frame with the loading lever installed like that.  Or maybe that's not happening, and you just took the photos that way, and you had to remove the lever to get the cylinder pin back in.

Offline Soiltec53

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 01:54:20 PM »
Yes I could go back to percussion cylinder , witch I plan to do also. Just Wish I had the funding , I could do it all. But Having to get our old house up to Sell and ridding myself of all the things I've collected over last 42 years takes chunk out of the enjoyable things and special projects. I disassembled the 58  down completely last night and discovered few other things that should be replaced. So the Restoration will be on going for while . I don't mind time is what I have most of now.  Also the reason the Remington 44 was mostly the Cartridge Rim is way smaller than the 44 WCF d should fit the cylinder right in the Chamber area. I did get the Russian 44 cartridges to fit except for the rim. So maybe I'll turn some down just as Blank shooter.  Thanks for info and suggestions.  }),
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 01:45:35 PM by Soiltec53 »

Offline Pustic

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2015, 02:35:52 PM »
If you're going to convert it back to percussion, you will also need to replace the hammer.
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Offline Flea Skinner

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 07:06:40 PM »
Could it be a .46 Rimfire conversion?
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Offline Soiltec53

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 01:42:54 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's Remington 44 or Colt 44 . Their rims of Cartridge is almost same as the Rim of my Cylinder where it fits cylinder rear loading and is recessed in cylinder. The measurements I got for Cartridge is from Cartridges of the World , book I used many time in past to make ammo for guns that been off market for to many moons to find them. Although it is much easier now with net and Forums like this.  I tried lot of Cartridges I have left in my Collection. But not the Rim Fire Rem 46. reason I don't believe it is the 46 is my Hammer is modified for Center fire and I'm pretty sure it fired lot of them in the past.    :-*

Offline CrazyOldHermit

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 05:03:26 PM »
One possiblity that I didn't see in your list was .44 "American"- the outside lubed .44 used in the 1870 Smith and Wesson Model 3. That would have been a fairly common cartridge back around that time, since the US Army used the Model 3. It would be reasonable to assume that it differed in some significant dimension from the .44 Russian that came right after it to prevent chambering the wrong ammunition.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 05:06:06 PM »
Could it be a .46 Rimfire conversion?

No, because it has a six shot cylinder. The .46 conversions were the first conversions done by Remington and they were five shot.
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Offline Dellbert

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 06:06:01 PM »
Nice Remmy Soiltec53. Hope you get her running soon. (T^
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Offline Soiltec53

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2015, 12:14:19 PM »
Well got up the other night late. One of those just can't sleep night's and went out to the old Reloading Room I call it . my small Work shop. Got out some 44-40 Brass and turned down Rim with Demial tool and file  to what Cartridges of World information on Remington 44 center fire  said Rim diameter should be . I'm sure its same or very close to Colt 44 Center fire round. turned down 6 . They weren't perfect all the way around rim but close. All fit excellent.; Before I make any into Blank I will barrow Brother Laws Mill and try do them right . But I'm close or right on to what cartridge it takes. I'll post pictures next time on how I did it. There is company that makes 44 Colt rounds but since I have the brass 44-40's  and not planning on shootings it with loaded ammo. Not much use going that way. Besides get to brag I did it. thanks Again for all engorgement on here . _l

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 04:54:17 AM »
A nice project. Keep us informed.    :)
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Offline mazo kid

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 09:44:32 AM »
Nice clear photos. I would SOOO like to have an original '58! I once had an Open Top repro conversion in  44 Remington, but made brass for that from 44 Spl. if I recall.

Offline Lionel2341

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 01:19:49 PM »
Just a heads up on your gun. If it's six shot it's chambered for .44 Colt or could be . 44 Martin. Secondly no six shot cylinders had the patent date on them. The only version of the .58 rem that had the cylinder date was the first run conversions that were factory done in.46 cal rim fire. All other conversions were done outside the factory. Some six shot cylinders are seen with a "pat applied for" stamp.
The five Remington's in the photo shows an original rem/S&W conversion ( the one next to the non converted gun) the other 3 shows the outside factory conversions all in .44 Colt

Offline Soiltec53

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Re: 58 Restoration
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2015, 03:27:27 PM »
Thanks for heads up on the 1858 , your load of information . Lionel2341. Seems my pistol has lot of what you just wrote . No patent Date at all , it is six shot. And it has to be 44 Colt from size of Rim , I also read some where that due to fact that conversions of this type were also called 44 Remington. here is some more pictures of it during time to fixing it. Picture of Rifling has lot left. Just to bad the markings on top of Barrel are gone except for USA .  Thanks again