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Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2015, 08:46:44 PM »
Quote
So if I were you, I wouldn't carry open or concealed.

Sorry, DD, but you are confused.  What good is a defense weapon if it's not on your person?  Answer; none at all.

I can accept all manner of concealed verses open carry arguments, as they come down ultimately to personal style and personal discernment of tactics (of both the enemy and the good guys) and probabilities.

I believe these are healthy discussions, but to say, as you did in essence, "Don't carry at all" is to say that you should delegate your responsibility to someone else.  And where does that leave the second amendment?

Also your description of your perception of the armed sales clerk sounds as if it were right out of an anti gun pamphlet promoting fear and distrust of armed citizens. 

Understand however, that the REAL bad guy won’t be carrying openly.  He’ll only let you know he’s armed once he sticks the muzzle in your face and asks for your wallet, or he simply starts shooting, so you’ll never fear him as you fear the armed store clerk because he won’t have given you the opportunity.  This is a very important point; the bad guys, the worst of the worst, will ALWAYS be armed, and so the only question remaining is whether any of the good guys will have the fortitude to arm themselves and stay armed, even if it is inconvenient and potentially makes them more of a target.

One thing that I will not debate because it is simply too obvious to be debatable, is that armed, principled citizens scare the excrement out of the enemy (the enemy being evil in society, and corruption in high places).  It is thus an excellent way of outing the enemy.  It’s like taking the party outside in the sunshine – the vampires will be the ones who protest most loudly, for they CANNOT abide it.  For that reason, and for others, I vigorously promote carrying guns at all times and in all places.
I made a longer reply but once again it didn't stick. so short version.
I can legally carry open or concealed  here and have done so and sometimes do but rarely. No real need.
Yes I have been stopped by an officer. He wasn't happy, didn't like it. But he was also an older cop with a lot of time on the force, and understood the law, and did not try to rewrite it on the spot, and didn't try to be an ass about it.

as I said earlier. Do you have a real need to do so?  Not just because you can.
Are you prepared for your life to be totally turned topsy turvy,
 because of that one over zealous cop that wants to harrass you because of it?
Because  you did draw and shoot. Doesn't matter if you killed or not.
Are you ready for the attorney's fees, and court time
Are you ready for prison if the court decides, bad shoot.
all just because you had a right to carry and wanted to exercise it. But really had no need to do so.

And as you agreed (I think) the robber will likely get you and the clerk off guard if he planned properly.
So what good was your self defense firearm on your person, if you weren't able to use it anyway?
Which begs a earlier response in another thread.ALWAYS BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS,  carrying or not.
I've taken knives away from guys or made them drop it, when they thought they were the tough guy, by pulling it.
So that goes to the above.
I never said do not carry.
I say think about the bad consequences of you decide to do so. either open or concealed.

You apparently didn't understand my concern  about the armed clerk. It is not from an anti gun pamphlet.
MY concern is justified.
He really has no need to carry. I stated the reasons above.
But as I said. I know nothing about him. Is he trained at all or just a wannabe?
Are there domestic or financial problems in his life. PTSD  etc.  that could cause him to go postal if something should
agitate him?
Now he does not have a need to carry on duty as a clerk. As above a good careful robber is not going to let him use it anyway. He will likely take the gun, over his dead body if need be.
So My final suggestion, would be to visit each of the law enforcement agencies in your area and get it straight from the horses mouth as it were.
hopefully this clarifies.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 09:00:49 PM by DD4lifeusmc »
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Offline Classanr

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2015, 08:50:23 PM »
.. since i have been here. So here is my question, do the police screw with open carriers? What are your personal experiences open carrying? ...

Valid question, and an interesting one *with differing answers* across the country, region by region, state by state.
I have been following this topic, interested in what others are posting.
It might help you to understand why I have not contributed.

From what I read in your OP, you are seeking open-carry personal experiences presumably to determine if there might be any risk to you in WV from WV law enforcement, should you chose to open carry in WV and "run into" any WV law enforcement while in the open carry mode.

I agree that it is difficult to sift through opinions (based on what people think ought to be and what they have third-party observed) in order for you to sort out actual measurable *open carry* occurrences so you can draw your own conclusions.  I can see why you wish to avoid stories about incidents and the subsequent opinions of why that incident was good or bad, or proves or disproves a point.

Towards that objective, I suggest that you restrict this topic to only members from WV, and only those who have had encounters with WV law enforcement, unless you are willing to entertain responses from Forum members who draw conclusions from their own experiences and observations outside of WV.

For instance, I have withheld any comment about my open carry in MA, NH, ME, VT, NC, TN, TX, UT or CA because my experiences are local and thus probably don't apply to you in WV.
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Online Pustic

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2015, 09:40:51 PM »
Go to this forum and look it over. It has sections for each and every state, and your questions will be answered.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum.php
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2015, 10:30:53 PM »
Like Pustic has suggested. Go to the opencarry.org forum and you will find the answers you are after. I have been a member for about 7 years and follow the Wisconsin state forum. In Wisconsin we have an organization called Wisconsin Carry,Inc. that was founded by people who open carry before concealed carry became legal with a permit/license in the state.

DD,how do you know you or anyone else does not have a need to carry ? How many people in the last ten years didn't think they had a real need to protect themselves from evil doers? They will never get the chance to correct the "I don't need a gun" thinking.They are dead. Do the bad guys in Wyoming give a 24 hour notice of pending activity ? If LEO are that way in Wyoming,I can cross that state off the list of places for a future move. Staying here in WI. is looking better all the time.
My experience with LEO in Wisconsin has been very positive and even supportive.
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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2015, 11:53:37 AM »
Dear Friends,
            As someone who made a POINT of, "Carrying Openly," when it was not permitted to carry concealed without a permit, I resent the implication that I did so purely to, "Show Off."  I carried openly because I believe very strongly in the Second Amendment To The Constitution Of The United States!  Had anyone ever asked me,"Why are you carrying a gun?" I would have told them just that! Then followed it with the question, "Why the Hell aren't YOU carrying One???
            I sometimes got quite a lot of ill-mannered attention, but I just shrugged that off!  Except for one occasion when a guy with his wife and two children, was ill-mannered enough to stand up, and take a picture of me IN the restaurant, while I was eating!  I got to my feet, walked over to his table, and said, "Do you think that was good manners?" Whereupon he became very flustered, and began stammering apologies. I turned away with a look of contempt, and rejoined my wife, who whispered, "What did you say to him?"
            I also disagree strongly with the assertion that most police Officers look upon Open Carrier with contempt!!  In Phoenix, Glendale and Peoria, I have had only polite interest shown, when an officer has commented on the fact that I was armed. Some have noticed when on a windy day, in the heat of summer, the small, lightweight Safari Vest has blown aside, and revealed the revolver. They have politely asked what type of gun I am carrying, and upon being told, and occasionally shown the gun, have expressed interest! POLITE interest!  I have NEVER been addressed with anything but polite and proper conduct by ANY police officer in the State of Arizona!  Which includes the State Police!  I was on my way to Tombstone a few years ago, and on the way south, on Interstate 10, I came across a van, that had been pulled over by a Female State Police Officer.  The van appeared to contain close to Ten Hispanic Males, and the Officer was about 5'-2" and probably weighed about 110 Lbs. Soaking Wet!  I Pulled onto the hard shoulder,about 20 yards past the van, and got out, holding a Rossi Coach Gun,(12 gauge!) and I was wearing Betsy & Clementine in a double, Butts Forward rig!  The officer paid no apparent attention to me, concluded her business with the Hispanic Males, and as soon as the van pulled away, walked up to me, and asked if I needed any assistance.  I was already putting the Coach Gun back in my car, and upon turning to her I replied, "Ma'am, I was not for one moment questioning your professional ability to handle that situation, but it did seem to me that should the Men in that van, decide to cause you any trouble, you were a little Out-Weighed!  She broke into a wide grin, and thanked me for my consideration. We shook hands, and I went on my way to Tombstone! When her ptrol car swept past me a mile or so later, I got a cheery little wave, which I acknowledged!
            One Peoria Police Officer actually said to me, (A Male Officer.)  "I wish more Citizens carried weapons!"  So the Attitude that some Officers seem to have, must come mainly from those officers employed by Cities and States in the north east part of the country, Noteably New York, Boston, Washington D.C., and other area's where the police have traditionally been the only ones permitted to have handguns! (Or carry them!)
            I carry mainly because I CAN LEGALLY DO SO, and because I have ALWAYS believed that a person should be allowed to defend himself.  As I have reached the age when to defend my self with my fists is no longer a practical solution, (I'd hurt my hands & wrists far more, than I would his nose or chin, I am rather Arthritic!) I carry a firearm so that I can level the arena of combat, so to speak!  In the rather nasty car wreck I suffered in January of 2012, I sustained the eqivelent of a very severe beating! I noticed that I never did get back the same degree of comfort and mobility I had before I was in that wreck.  Which told me I had passed that age, when my body would be able to,"Bounce Back!"
            I have learned a great deal both from People I have met in the course of my life, here in the United States, and from People on this forum, Noteably DD4life.  I suspect (Actually I KNOW!!!) that the training he has had as a Member of The United States Marines Corps, has given him a distinct "Edge," when it comes to dealing with "Unpleasant People!"  My Military Service was in the Royal Air Force, where the most energetic thing I ever had to do, was straighten out bent paper clips. ( My Trade was, "Clerk Personnel")
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 11:59:51 AM by Gunslinger9378 »
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2015, 12:28:27 PM »
Hi, I don't like the idea of open carry. It would cause some women and politicians in my NY State to just pass out with fear. It also gives a head-up to any bad guys thinking of doing something nefarious. When I show my handgun it will be to shoot it and put a BG down with no warning!! Don't give away your carry advantage.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline HAWKEN50

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2015, 12:31:59 PM »
 :)   Hey Bruce since i live in Virginia and being a neighbor so to speak I thought i would answer you original question. Around here open carry is seen fairly often. The police don't harass at all unless said person is show some kind of odd behavior. My friends and i do carry open when heading to the local gun range. I have been approached by a policeman exactly one time and that was because i was carrying my Walker Colt. He just wanted to know where i got that horse pistol from.lol.
     That being said most of the time i carry concealed because i want that element of surprise. Also don't wont to be singled out as a first target. I think you need to put yourself in a crooks mind. What would you do in his place, and someone open carrying would be the first taken out in my opinion,
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Online Pustic

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2015, 01:30:19 PM »
Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

I carry my gun openly to protect my family and the absolute best protection I can provide is to deter the criminal from ever choosing us as a target to begin with. I have no desire to be a concealed carry type of person with a hero complex hoping for the opportunity to save the world from the future actions of a criminal by being able to be judge, jury and executioner.

=======================

One time I was told that firearms should only be for LEO and that people should not be able to have firearms. I asked them what gives them the right to say such a thing, and their reply was "I have a right to speak and that is protected by the Constitution!" I smiled and said "that's funny, my right to have a firearm is protected by that very same Constitution...imagine that".

============================

First, I don't carry weapons.
 Weapons are intended to be used to harm, and I hope I never have to do that.

 As for what I say when people ask me why I have a pistol, it depends on the situation & their attitude.

 I carry because it's a civil right. Rights need no reasons or justification.

 I carry to be able to protect myself.

 I carry for education. (Showing other people that gun /= evil, murder, death, etc., as well as having a better idea of how to exercise their RKBA... heck, sometimes people don't even know that they're allowed to!)

 I carry because criminals usually aren't stupid enough to attack someone when there's a cop around & there's rarely a cop around.

 Also because in my city the police response time to serious emergencies is on average over 13 minutes (after the victim gets to a phone, and calls 911, and explains where s/he is & what the problem is), and I'd like to be alive & unharmed if they ever arrive.
 (The criminal can be alive & unharmed if he doesn't attack me, or leaves once he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew, or decides that lying on the ground spread-eagle & waiting for police is a good idea.)

 Also because according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports database my city has the highest rate of violent crime in the state, generally by at least twice the rate of the next most violent city.

===================================

"Why do you carry a gun?"/"Why are you carrying a gun?"

 "Why aren't you?"

 "What do you mean?"

 "How do you plan to protect yourself if someone tries to harm you?"

 "Why would anybody do that? I'm not a bad person."

 "But anybody that would try to harm you would be a bad person, right?"

 "Well, I could always call the police."

 "And they would come after that bad person harmed you. What good would they be then?"

 "Oh." .... (wait for it).... "But why would anybody try to harm you if they saw you are carrying a gun?" .... (wait for it again) ...."Oh." .... (wait some more) .... "So can just anybody carry a gun? Don't you need some sort of license?"

 "Carrying a gun is a right. You don't need permission to do anything that is your right."

 "Oh."

 "Here is some information about your right to carry a gun and what the laws are about carrying a gun. You can go to the websites on the bottom [of the card - OCDO & VCDL in the case of the cards I hand out] to find out more about it.

 "OK. Thanks."

 stay safe.

==========================

I generally weigh my response based upon the individual who has asked the question; how I perceive them, their demeanor and sense of humor. I tend to prefer comical responses but do hold those in abeyance most of the time. So it usually boils down to something like this.

 "Why do you carry a firearm?" or "Why do you carry like that?"
 "So I don't have to use it."

 I have found this to be both non-threatening to the person asking and gives them pause as they try to make some sense of it. This gives me the opportunity to engage them in conversation and I have yet to have a bad time of it with someone who has asked me similar questions.

 "Why do you carry a firearm?"

 "I have some medical issues that preclude me from fighting or running as I was once able to do. This makes me a perfect victim and I would rather not be one of those."

 Once I explain those medical issues, they understand. Other questions tend to ensue and the encounter winds up good for both parties.
{?( Be ye not afraid of the truth, for the "Truth Has No Agenda".  :9)
"If they come to take, they also come to die." Pustic 4:20


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2015, 02:40:48 PM »
Dear Friends,
            (Footnote!)  I DO sometimes carry openly still!  This is when I go to laugh at the antics of SASS members at Winter Range, or go to some other western Function.  But when I go thus, I have Betsina AND Clementina, in my Double Rig, with two Mexican Loop Holsters, and I would need an ankle length Duster, several sizes too large to conceal that combination!
            So I can see Pustics point of view, and mainly carry concealed because it IS LEGAL, and the old women of both sexes who inhabit the community where I now live, and who are already poised to call the police about my German Shepherd dog, (Because she barks at their Neurotic Yappadoodles!) would just see it as another chance to make trouble for me!  I'm getting far too old for this type of Stupid Shit!  So my revolver is kinda like the Three Old Ladies in the Vulgar Song............."Nobody Knew They Were there!"
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
PS: At the aforementioned ,"Winter Range," this year, Even Ana, who is used to taking Photo's of me in the desert, and seeing my revolvers rear into the air, until my arm is about 40 degrees from the horizontal when I press the trigger, commented on the shooters when they ran through the various stages! She said, "The barrels of their guns hardly move when they shoot! Not at all like your guns rear up!" I rest my case!!!
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2016, 07:47:04 PM »
Texas open carry article and photo of possible Remington.  I don’t like Rems in the news.  We are better off layin real low.  I still think the open carry crowd is unhinged.  Licensed concealed carry, for sure, but put the damn thing away and have a life. 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0221/Why-some-conservative-colleges-in-Texas-are-saying-no-to-guns-video



"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Tom-ADC

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2016, 07:59:27 PM »
I have a good friend lives just outside of Dallas, he says first of the year he saw two people open carrying but since then nobody.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 03:26:55 PM by Tom-ADC »
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Offline Len

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2016, 11:23:55 AM »
http://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2016/02/965878_1_0221%20Texas%20open%20carry_standard.jpg?alias=standard_600x400

The full photograph from the Christian Science Monitor.
They forgot to tell you about the guys in the pics.
The gal is briskly entering the University to continue her in depth studies in nuclear physics, Higg's particles and such, the guy on the right is a well known student of Roman/Latin poets of the 2nd century AD and as seen by his kilt he is of Scottish pedigree, born close to the Roman landmark Hadrian's wall. The guy on the left is fairly known (to us in the fraternity) as an able student of higher maths, especially the newer aspects of fractal sperephictally topography. One of these guys is surely ending up as a Nobel Laureate.

I totally subscribe to G Dog's statement

Offline old fogey

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2016, 06:29:47 AM »
Proud to live in Texas, where (despite having numerous idiots go amok over the past 100 years,) open carry is encouraged! People here figured out that, the more folks that have guns and tote 'em around, the less likely a idiot is prone to get ideas of opening fire (amazing how increased chances of returned fire dims the ardor of cowards who do that 'random' [supposedly random, target area usually picked because reduced likelyhood of returning fire in actuality-] shooting crap). Had there been "open carry" at the office party in San Bernadino, do you really think the cowards would have went there two times (pretty sure first trip was a recon action)?

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2016, 01:41:21 AM »
I've open carried in Alabama for quite a while now.....not sure if my experience would even relate to W.(by God) Va. OC....but,

when I OC, it's either an 1873 clone or a 1911 on my hip or in a shoulder rig .
as long as a store does NOT have a "no guns" sign on the door, I can and do carry inside.....never been hassled.

had my license checked during a traffic stop for a bad tag light........young Officer calmly asked me if I had a CCW permit (in a vehicle, if it's not on the dashboard it's considered concealed)........showed it to him, he bade me a good night and we parted amicably

had my fishing license checked by a State Game Warden on a public pier with my 1911 on my hip in plain view.........he never even mentioned it.

I personally think it's very much up to the individuals involved (Police AND OCer) how every situation is handled.
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Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Open carry
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2016, 07:42:05 AM »
Wyoming dropped the requirement for a permit to carry open or Concealed a few years ago.
Rarely see anyone out here open carry.
To me the carry or not is a two edged sword.
You are sooner or later going to have that one hothead, that is carrying, lose his temper over some minor thing, and draw and fire.
So I am especially wary of someone that is carrying. Because you just never know.
I do carry now and then, but normally concealed. No sense in advertising the fact.

Went back and re-read some.

BG rooster   asked
DD,how do you know you or anyone else does not have a need to carry ?

I am NOT making that determination for anyone. I asked the question, do you feel you have a NEED to carry.
Not just a right or a desire. Each person will have to answer that on their own, and based on each set of circumstances, or situations at the time.
Do you really need to carry in Walmart or Safeway? Probably not.
Also while many people here and elsewhere, might think of themselves as Rambo and could save the day, actually the opposite is more likely to be true.
Many have never been in harms ways, much less needed to responded instantaneously and reflexively to a situation.  You may need to draw very quickly, but you better be damn certain of your target and even more importantly what is behind your target, should you miss ( which is quite likely).
so again I have to ask , ARE YOU PREPARED TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS, IF A COURT / JURY DECIDES IT WAS A BAD SHOOT?
Not only just a fine, or jail time, but loss of job, house, car, family(?) lawyer and court costs,
and then the attackers family suiting you for wrongful death or such?
And if determined to be a felony, loss of your gun rights?
And as I said before. Situational awareness should be applied first.
scan the parking lot as you enter, and find your parking place.
And again, before you exit your car.
And then when entering the building scan the people around.  suspicious? grouped together, but not really talking to each other?
Scan the aisle before you enter it. Know where your product is, get it, and then move.
Be aware of a person(s) entering your aisle.
Heading to check out? scan the ones you pass.
Pay attention to the people in line with you. get off your damn cellphone, and look!!
Walking out the door? Again scan the area, look for people loitering, that could intercept you
between you and your car.

NO gun on you during this?  So what else could you use as a very effective weapon?
A very good quality stout wooden cane, or a walking staff.  But wait you better learn how to stick fight first.
Or maybe a legal hand taser or pepper spray.
i have a hand taser that is legal. and yes I do know how to stick fight and use other things as a defensive weapon.
Also can use your cart to keep between you.

The attacker having a gun is the only time he has a real advantage over you.
In the case of a parking lot attack like this, he will likely already have his gun in his hand.
You might be good but not that good.
So in these situations, what good was it if you were armed and couldn't use it anyway.

As I said. SITUATIONAL AWARENESS  is your best #1  self defense  armed or not.





« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 01:44:41 PM by DD4lifeusmc »
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
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Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776