Photobucket

Author Topic: Snake and Rat Loads  (Read 5235 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rodwha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2015, 01:36:36 PM »
If I load balls I also use .457" ones as I have it for my Ruger, but also because I believe them slightly better due to the slightly longer bearing surface created. But I almost always load my 170 and 195 grn bullets that are .456". I use a folding loading stand though.

I usually end up using my wiping down rag on the loading lever because it does begin to bother me loading with the lever (due to the shorter length and less leverage maybe?). But I prefer it as it's there and there's no need to carry anything extra, especially in the field, but also to the range as my large tool box is literally full and heavy enough.

"It is much quicker to put in the ten grains of Black then pop in a Ptrodex Pellet, then place a ball on the chanber mouth, place the cavity end of the .50 cal Ball starter on the ball, and smack it home with the mallet!"

To me this statement just doesn't make sense. How can it be quicker to pull the cylinder, set it where it needs to go, get out your loading equipment, measure and pour 10 grns of powder, grab a pellet of powder, pound away with a mallet etc. and then reassemble the gun vs using it as is and measuring the whole load at one time (though using a stand certainly makes it easier and quicker)?

To each his own and I'm glad you've found a system that you like. I like mine for my reasons, and it's not because I don't like the idea of a loading press, but because I just don't have room for it and don't want to carry it along too.

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3339
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2015, 02:12:24 PM »
Wearing a heavy work glove can sometimes be useful.

Some members here have suggested using a piece of plastic etc. tubing/hose over the loading lever when pressing.

Either method seems to work pretty well and adds some cushion and control.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 02:40:19 PM by G Dog »
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline Gunslinger9378

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2360
  • Some will...some won't....But I do!
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2015, 04:01:33 PM »
Dear Friends,
            Yeah, but I sometimes shoot ten cylinders or more!  When you have that many rounds to load, It IS quicker, since I always try and bring the guns home loaded, and I do have 17 cylinders after all!  So I boil the ten cylinders clean, line 'em up on the table, then pop one at a time in the "Device."  I have the Holy Black in a small Eagle Flask, so six swift charges dropped into the chambers, followed by a quick squint with a flashlite, to be quite sure there ARE just ten grains in each chamber! (And not 20 grains in one, and none in the next!) The six Pyrodex pellets are really quick to add, and they they can be see very easily in the chambers, Then pop a .457 ball on the first chamber rest the cavity of the ball Starter on the ball, and WHUMP, (It's Seated!) I usually give another WHUMP to make sure it's down REALLY HARD.) Repeat five more times and that end of the first cylinder is completed.
"  This process takes slightly under one minuit!So allowing for interuptions say 15 to 20 minutes for ten cylinders, Capping each cylinder take about two minuits, which also include pressing the cap home with a wooden lolly stick! So say twenty minutes for the ten cylinders.  Add a couple of minutes in case one of my cats jumped up on the table and wanted to play with the caps!
            The lubing of each chamber can vary in time.  I have to include the time that it takes me to put the lid on the cap container, , and arrange the cylinders open chamber end Upwards, and go to the garage, where my old coffee mug rests on top of the wooden cabinet!  Then each cylinder takes about two minutes to complete the Over The Ball lubing! This includes placing each one on a flat paper towel and polishing the face of each cylinder.   So all in all, 32 minutes for the actual loading process of Priming Powder, Pellet and ball seating!  Then add ten minutes for placing the caps on the nipples. I do this with a pair of Medical Hemostats, picking the caps up one by one, and placing then on top of each nipple, squeezing them a little so they are not pushed home . Then after all six are in place, I take a short piece of slim dowel, and press the cap firmly onto each nipple.I like to hear the little "Scritch," sound the cap makes as it slides onto the sides of each nipple. That means they won't ever fall off while I am shooting. That takes about ten to twelve minutes for each ten cylinders.  Then the only thing left is to add the Over-The-Ball-Lube to cover the balls in each cylinder.
            I'll round off the times to the nearest five minuits over.  So the loading of the powder and ball, say 35 minuits: then the capping of the nipples, say 15 minuits. Finally the time taken to dig out the 50% Beeswax and 50% Olive lube from the mug, and apply it over each ball!  Say two minutes per cylinder, say twenty minuits. So the total time taken to reload ten cylinders would be about one hour and a quarter.  It often takes a little longer, as it often happens that Sheba wants to be taken for her evening," Walkies", during the time I am doing these tasks. Often I will complete the reloading of the chambers, and Ana will have the evening meal ready. So I'll break off and eat, then carry on when I have eaten.  I'd say that to be generous with the time I use, roughly an hour and a quarter, Tops!
            Now I may be a little slower as the evening goes by, for one has to concentrate REALLY hard to not make a mistake when reloading!  This is quite tiring, and I may slow down a little when getting to the end of the entire process.  However I DO save some time in doing it my way, for I am not continually having to remove cylinders from a revolver and having to replace them with the next one!  Also the capping process is Much quicker when you have each cylinder in a little upright tube, so you can get each nipple in the Hemostates rotate the cylinder with the left hand, while squeezing the cap slightly, and the nipple is always in just the right spot to place the cap onto it.
            I am at this time unable to put up any pictures, as I had a new system put on my computer, and the hard drive, (Which was ridden with viruses!) was wiped clean, and I have not yet found out how to put my pics back onto this new system!  My old system was Windows 7, and I now have Vista.  A guy from the Church has been promising for some time, that he will come around and see what he can do to fix it, but he never seems to be able to find the time! Ho Hum!
            I use the .457 balls, because I noted in one of the sites I have among my "Favorites," that the same powder charge behind .454 balls and the .457 balls, the .457 always went faster. I think it is the fact that the heavier, and more tightly fitting ball, gives the powder charge a half-Nano second more to really get it's dander up!  So that is the way I reload, and I get high velocities, a load that is surprisingly accurate for one as powerful as it is, and one that I am confident in, should that terrible moment ever arrive, when I have to defend my own life, or the life of another. Will Get The Job Done!!!    Ana, who knows almost noting about guns, (And could care less!) Did say that with the amount of flame and smoke that emits from the muzzle of my guns, it would probably roast the person to Death! Well, Poor Ed Masterson's clothes were on fire when he was shot to death on the Wrong Side of The Tracks, that night in Dodge City!
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 04:14:43 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3339
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2015, 04:34:30 PM »
It sounds to be quite a laborious process, even after discounting Sheba's Walkies.

You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline Gunslinger9378

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2360
  • Some will...some won't....But I do!
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2015, 03:25:14 PM »
Dear G-Dog,
            Not so in fact. Practice males Perfect!  I find I get into a rthym!  It all goes very smoothlu. Regarding Etek's comments about measuring and pouring each charge. I DON"T!  My little Eagle Flask has a ten grain spout, and six quick dumps with that, followed by six pellets dropped in by hand, takes no time at all!  I usually set aside most of the evening to the job, so I just sit in my chair and relax as I go through the motions!  I DO NOT either listen to a radio, or watch TV while doing this.  Reloading is a task that requires TOTAL CONCENTRATION!  One cannot afford to make a mistake!  I am reminded of what the Late Colonel Charles Askins said, when he was tracking some Illegal Aliens in the desert one day.  He asked the Apache Scout, why it was that a white man could never track as well as an Indian.  The Apache said, "White man follow track in sand, thinkum about Pay Packet, thinkum about woman, thinkum about going to bar.  Apache follow track in sand, thinkum about Track in Sand!"My "Device," is a four inch steel plate, with a short piece of pipe welded vertically onto the center of it! The pipe is a snug fit on the Remington .44 Cylinder.  I placed a thick piece of saddle leather at the bottom of the pipe, but do not need to line the sides. No marring of the sides of any of the cylinders has ever come to pass. So there is no need to line the inside of the pipe. The leather disc at the bottom of the pipe is to protect the rear of the cylinder, where the slots are for the indexing of the chambers when the gun is being fired.  The cylinder when in the "Device can be lightly spun with the left hand while the ten grains of Holy Black are being poured into the chambers, and the six Pyrodex Pellets are being dropped in when all six chambers, have been visually checked with a flashlite, to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT ALL SIX CHAMBERS DO HAVE THE PRIMER CHARGE! (And not ten grans in four chambers, twenty grains in one chamber, and NONE in the sixth!!!)
            Next is is a matter of seconds to pop a Pyrodex Pistol Pellet into each of the six chambers, as these can be easily seen, as they are clearly visible as they come up quite high in the chambers.  Then all you have to do is place a .457 ball on the first chamber, pick up the Ball Starter, (And a .50 Cal Ball starter is a perfect fit for the .44 Chambers!) take the Big Rubber Mallet, and drive the ball down Hard onto the powder, and give it a second blow to be sure it is set down very firmly!  THen I Usually put the cylinder aside until I have done all that I fired that afternoon.  I next place my Over-The-Ball-Lube in the chamber mouths and when all cylinder have reached this stage, I cap them all, one at a time! 
           I pick each cap up individually with a set of Medical Hemostats, so that at no time am I in danger of contaminating the priming    Compound, with grease from my hands. All the cylinders having been previously Boiled in Water for about four or five minuits, and then  allowed to Air Dry, so that upon being cool enough to touch with the bare hand, they are, "Surgically Clean." I gently squeeze the Remington # 10 Caps with the Hemostats, and place each one on the nipple LIGHTLY.  Then, gently rotating the cylinder in the Device with my left hand, I press each cap down firmly onto the nipple. I like to hear the little "Scritch," sound the slightly compressed cap makes, when it is pushed down onto the nipple.  Doing it this way, I have NEVER, EVER, had a cap fall off the nipple during a shooting session!
            The only process remaining is to lube OVER the balls, with a mixture of 50% Beeswax, and 50$ Olive Oil!  This mixture sets quite hard, but is still easy to press into the remaining cavity, OVER the balls. One can use the fingers for this task, but I find that The ideal tool for this job to be one of those flat Lolly Sticks! The one that come from those chocolate covered Ice Cream Bars!  I have my mixture in an old Coffee Mug, and the rounded end of these lolly sticks, scoops out the mixture so nicely, and one can pack it very easily into the ends of the chambers, until the balls are covered.  NEVER, EVER, use a soft substance such as Bore Butter, or Crisco for this purpose.  BOTH are FAR TOO SOFT! ALL the lube from ALL SIX CHAMBERS, will be blown away at the very first shot. I am convinced that this is why, "Over-The-Ball-Lubing," has gotten a Bad Name with some people on the forum.  All that Crisco being blown away at once may well make a gun, "As Slippery as A Greased Pig, At The County Fair!" Leave Crisco to Loretta Lyne in her Kitchen!  I find that after each cylinder has been lubed in this fashion, it is nice to have a paper towel flat on the table. Place the cylinder Capped end Upward on this paper towel, and run it back and forth a few times.  This will leave the lube still packed in over the balls nicely, and give a nice shiny flat look to the end of each cylinder. This 50%Beeswax & 50% Olive Oil WILL NOT melt if you are carrying the weapon on a hot summer day.  I DO carry my guns on Hot Summer Days, and I live in Southern Arizona, the Frying Pan of America!  I have never gotten stained shirts or pants through melted lube. With this mix, it just ain't gonna Happen!!
                                                                                                          Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 03:37:50 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3339
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2015, 04:44:22 PM »
Johnnie, do you ever use conicals?  I know you like lots of power for your SDL’s but you have never mentioned using conicals, just the .457’s.  What are your views on conicals for power?
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline rodwha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2015, 05:57:36 PM »
"It sounds to be quite a laborious process..."

It is unless maybe you are loading up a backpack's worth of cylinders at one time.

"I pick each cap up individually with a set of Medical Hemostats, so that at no time am I in danger of contaminating the priming    Compound, with grease from my hands."

Not really sure how ease gets down into the caps as I've never experienced this problem and just use my hand to set each cap. And I've never experienced a cap fain off of a nipple either.

'All the cylinders having been previously Boiled in Water for about four or five minuits, and then  allowed to Air Dry, so that upon being cool enough to touch with the bare hand, they are, "Surgically Clean." '

I'm not sure why they'd need to be surgically clean, and have not ensure mine were. They've all worked quite well despite the fact...

I've also never lubed over a ball, but I might try it if I ever try shot.

His view is that a ball was much more effective than the conicals of the day (Civil War ear) according to Mr. Keith's 2 war vet friends. However, looking at the designs of the day it's not surprising.
"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

Offline Omnivore

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2015, 06:14:28 PM »
We're drifting from the issue of shot loads somewhat, but;

I've found that a 180 grain bullet can actually go faster than a .457" round ball.  Now that I have a chrono again, I can test that again, though I tested it twice, meaning one back and forth between ball and bullet-- That's one cylinder of ball, then one cylinder of 180 grain conical, followed by another cylinder of ball and another cylinder of conical.

If the lever is a bit much for one hand I'll use two hands, with the butt of the gun against my chest, or pectoral muscle.  You have more than enough oomph that way, for even the most stubborn loads.  Also I've been sizing down the Lee bullets to .450 for a Pietta (they drop from the mold a tad larger than that).  They load easier that way and still stay put under recoil.

As far as shot goes, I tried it and got a huge empty hole in a wide pattern at close range.  Later I've seen where people were able to get decent patterns, so that's something more to 'spearmint' with.  Using less powder was one method, like ten or fifteen grains.  Playing with different wad thicknesses (and materials) between powder and shot was another.  I had resigned to the idea of getting another barrel and reaming out the rifling, just for shot, but it seems there are less extreme measures to be tried first.

Offline Omnivore

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2015, 06:16:36 PM »
Oh; isn't there an old rock and roll song entitled "Snake, Rat and Mole!"
(I just had to say that.  sorry.  carry on)

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 06:57:16 PM »
10 Feet.

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2015, 06:58:10 PM »
5 Feet.

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 06:59:04 PM »
3 Feet.

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2015, 07:28:16 PM »
Note that there is no 'Donut Hole'.
We may not actually be spinning the load very much if at all.
All loads from all 3 distances penetrated the tree the target was mounted on.
The loads were also tried on large (2.75 Quart) Tide bottles half filled with water. The loads penetrated both sides of the bottles in the upper side where no water was present. The rest of the pellets were located inside the bottles.

As I said, this is a pretty light load but will certainly work on all but the largest snakes at the distances tested. One could easily and probably safely double the load of shot to about 1/3 Oz. Smaller shot might enhance the density of the shot pattern with the probable lessening of penetration. Additional powder could also be used probably increasing penetration.

I found an inexpensive Snake load that most anyone can easily make with components available to the shooting community. Please remember that I used a VERY heavy Lithium based grease to keep the loads from backing out under recoil. This grease certainly does its job in this application. Lighter greases might not hold up as well using this load or higher loads so be careful.

As I said before, the wads are the commercially available heavy felt that fit the chamber tightly. Using looser fitting wads may not perform as well.

I will be using this load from now on in my travels in snake country; which is anywhere outside my doors.

Offline Gunslinger9378

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2360
  • Some will...some won't....But I do!
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2015, 04:46:30 PM »
Dear Friends,
            The Most Dangerous Animal In The Woods has Two Legs!  On the comparatively few times I have come across dangerous Snakes, I have had NO PROBLEMS in dispatching them with a Round Ball. So, if some of you are REALLY WORRIED ABOUT MEETING A SNAKE, Carry a 12 gauge shotgun!  Or learn to shoot well enough to deal with Mr. Snake with a RoundBall Load in your Remington Revolver!
            All this worry you put yourselves through about, "Doughnut Holes," and different Shot Sizes??????  I have shot several snakes, mostly Rattlesnakes, and NOT ONE OF THEM HAS EVER COMPLAINED!!! They have all just died quietly!  (Well, perhaps
"Quietly," is not the best adjective to use? Maybe, "Quickly," would be a more suitable?
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3339
Re: Snake and Rat Loads
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2015, 05:06:48 PM »
... learn to shoot well enough to deal with Mr. Snake with a RoundBall Load in your Remington Revolver!
         

What timely advice for us concerning Mr. Snake.  First, we should learn how to shoot. That's it, the very thing!  Let's all begin to practice as soon as possible. 

Thanks again Johnnie.  I really don't know how we children could possibly survive without your excellent counsel and guidance.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 05:18:34 PM by G Dog »
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.