Author Topic: How NOT to post on this Forum  (Read 8175 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Classanr

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5176
  • BP, the original bug chaser!
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2015, 04:50:58 PM »
To be totally clear, the three posts were not pulled.  They were split, and then referenced in this thread.  People can still read Etek's two original unedited posts via the link I placed into the first posting.  The quality of the posts have been "group-moderated" in this thread by various members of the Forum.  The two philosophical points of view on moderation have been aired.  The risks of taking Etek's postings as gospel have been spelled out.

In retrospect, I should have PM'd Etek with the opportunity to fill in the missing data.  That would have been more polite.  Possibly Etek and I could have worked something out before this all went public.  To Etek, I offer my apologies for any embarrassment he might have suffered in my focus on content.

Not coincidentally, this very topic rises from the dead periodically on the NAA board where the standard for discussion of smokeless in BP is quite strict, as it is here.  Had the posting not been corrected, I would still have split it off to call attention to the *manner* in which the information was presented.

The medium is the message.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2015, 06:43:39 PM »
Indeed you let your emotions override your otherwise logical thinking process. Or you didn't read my posts but just reacted.
A .22LR load is safe in a firearm designed for a .22 Magnum load.
Period.

Offline Hawg

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8778
  • You done went and done it now!
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2015, 07:10:08 PM »
Indeed you let your emotions override your otherwise logical thinking process. Or you didn't read my posts but just reacted.
A .22LR load is safe in a firearm designed for a .22 Magnum load.
Period.

But not with a bp cylinder, period.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3567
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2015, 07:38:21 PM »
A .22LR load is safe in a firearm designed for a .22 Magnum load.
Period.
That is a good example of the definitive and categorical colliding with the ambiguous.  We know what a .22LR is but what's a .22 Magnum?  Is that WRF smokeless or NAA black?

No way to tell from the statement.
Period.
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline Gunslinger9378

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2388
  • Some will...some won't....But I do!
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2015, 09:09:43 PM »
Dear Friends,
            I was reading through this fairly old post, and came across a remark from Richard that I strongly take exception to.
On page one, he is replying to Classanr, and makes the following statement!

              (  Hi Classant, It frosts me because there has never been a post that was 100% accurate, true. )

            Well this frosts ME. I have never posted a load, or an experience that was not the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth!  Whether it has been of a personal experience that I have had, or a load I have used in my Remington Revolvers!  I have seen guns that have blown up, and witnessed the distress, (Sometimes bravely hidden!) of the wrecked guns owner, at the loss of a favorite Toy!  Falsely publishing load data, could lead to loss of property, or serious injury, or even loss of life!  These are VERY SERIOUS MATTERS!  I only EVER use a combination of a Ten grain Goex Booster, and either 35 grains of Pyrodex P, or a 30 grain Pyrodex Pistol Pellet.  I personally have been away from Smokeless Powder  for so long, I cannot even remember the powders, or the loads I used to use for .357, .303 British, .44-40 Winchester,
and a couple of other calibers I cant remember, or be sure of.  If I EVER gave any advice on reloading smokeless powder, it would be to tell the enquire'r to look up the caliber in a reputeable Re-Loading Manual, published by a reputable company!
The only powders I can remember using were Unique, WW 630 OR 230 Ball Powder, (Can't recall which one!) and I did have a can of Bullseye for a while! I think (?) I used that in .38 Wadcutter target loads!
            Any one who puts any quantity of ANY smokeless power in a Black Powder gun, is flirting with disaster! He may lose HIS life, or cause the death or Serious Injury of another!!  I don't care if it is one of those stupid NMA Mouse Guns! A piece
of redhot steel entering what might pass for your brain, is NO LAUGHING MATTER!  Stick to Black Powder, of one of the many
well known substitutes on the market! I personally WILL NOT USE Triple 7!
            My conscience is quite clear on this! Any load I have advocated, I have fired off in my own guns MANY TIMES!  So I am confident that they are safe to use in a REPLICA Remington Revolver!  My PDL I have never recommended for use in an original Remington.  I know some members shoot them, but even if I owned one, and knew it was in sound shootable condition, I STILL would not use my PDL in it.  Any revolver THAT OLD, has deserved it's retirement! Just my opinion!  I'd rather it survive for others to enjoy!
            I do not know what Richard meant when he made the above statement!Maybe he was calling us ALL Bull-----ers? I just know that I always tell the truth, and believe that most other members do too!  I don't have a good enough memory these days! Hard enough for me to recall WHAT DID HAPPEN, than to try and make up Stories about what I INVENTED AS HAPPENING!   HELL! I even forgot to eat my breakfast a few mornings ago!
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 09:22:56 PM by Gunslinger9378 »
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline Dellbert

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3889
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2015, 11:35:18 PM »
I like to keep it simple with my bp firearms. No need to mess with something that could destroy a good thing.
If it's not broke don't try fixin it.

Offline G Dog

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3567
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2015, 12:57:17 PM »
I like to keep it simple with my bp firearms. No need to mess with something that could destroy a good thing.

+1 on what Dellbert said. 
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline ssb73q

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3342
  • Gunsmoke junkie
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2015, 05:20:23 PM »
Hi Johnnie if you don't understand my statement, no amount of explanation will ever satisfy you.

BTW, have you run that nipple removal experiment for us yet?  (^h (^h (^h

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Etek

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2015, 08:03:23 PM »
The NAA Mini in .22 BP IS a .22 MAGNUM converted to fire BP.

Using a .22 LR smokeless load in a firearm already tested in .22 Magnum is certainly safe.

Offline Classanr

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5176
  • BP, the original bug chaser!
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2015, 10:28:11 PM »
The NAA Mini in .22 BP IS a .22 MAGNUM converted to fire BP.

Using a .22 LR smokeless load in a firearm already tested in .22 Magnum is certainly safe.

For those who continue to monitor this thread, please be aware that the chamber designs for the NAA BP 22 and "22 mag" are considerably different from chambers for the cased 22s.  The NAA BP cylinders are NOT "converted" from anything except hunks of stainless steel.  To make my point clear, the BP versions are designed to be loaded with *unpacked* BP, with a small *air pocket* between powder and bullet.  The factory bullet has a concave base.  In fact the NAA BP cylinders are not like any other BP gun on this planet, much less a "conversion" of a cased 22 cylinder.

The only accuracy in Etek's statement arises from early redacted published NAA manuals that stipulates there is *one* load of *one* smokeless powder that has been *factory-tested* and safely fired in the NAA "BP 22mag".  Unfortunately, Etek makes a rash presumption that *any* 22lr smokeless load, when dumped into the NAA "BP 22mag" chamber will ipso-facto produce a safe load.  There are some extremely hot 22lr factory loads of proprietary blends which produce prodigious nearly-instantaneous peak pressure (when compared to "normal" loads).  The indication that these can be dangerous loads despite their being "merely 22lr" is that the NAA's cylinder pin bends under these loads, as has been reported on this forum and on NAA's forum.

Maybe Etek has found a load that works safely.  The purpose of this thread is to elicit the name of the powder and the weight of the powder, the name of the bullet and the weight of the bullet that Etek uses.  It would not hurt to include chronograph data of his personal experience during testing.  However, to date all of Etek's postings can be summarized to "I pour some unknown powder from random 22lr cases into my NAA and use that bullet, I am still alive, and therefore it is safe."

We are taking the "therefore" portion of Etek's postings to task, as would do all other responsible reloading web sites.
This entire thread is here because Etek is only presenting "should-be" "ought-to-be" and "I cannot see it being any other way" arguments.  None of those arguments holds water when it comes time for other people to *replicate* the formula.

Please re-read Etek's initial postings.  You will observe over time a slow but steady modification of his postings to clarify his initial ambiguous statements.  We are now at the point that 22lr are used as the source for 22mag loads in a BP gun.  We still don't know powder type or volume, bullet type or weight, nor brand of caps used for ignition.

Etek is welcome to his opinion based on personal experience.  But take his posting for what they are:  an opinion, not a proven reloading formula for a very unusual BP gun that Etek does not yet fully understand.. 
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline prof marvel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I don't think I know as much as *you* think I know
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2015, 11:53:24 PM »
To elaborate on Classanr's last post -
Etek neglected  several important aspects :

The NAA .22-CB utilizes an advanced tapered Tannenburg-style chamber design, with a specifically designed
bullet: one can observe a particularly designed "domed" hollow base, and a large smooth bearing surface
providing a specific surface area. this bullet is not the same as a .22 LR bullet.

The combination of the Tannenburg-style chamber and bullet design increases the effectiveness of the powder charge.

If you try to change the recipe, you change the physics.
If you change the physics, you change the results and it can hurt you, or it can lead to the bullet only aggravating squirrels.

One can think of it as a chamber & bullet combo that literally creates a "shaped charge"  somewhat similar *in concept* to the "shaped charge" of the Rockeye Bomblet. Shaped Charge Chambers have a lot of mathematics and physics behind them.


Amongst the differences are that the chamber design of the Rockeye produces a 1 mm high-velocity flame that cuts thru 1 foot of steel armor, (with which BTW I have some small real-world experience having worked for Honeywell
and sitting right next to the Rockeye Bomblet Test Chamber.) Whilst the chamber/bullet/powder design of the
NAA .22-CB WHEN FOLLOWED CORRECTLY produce a nice tiny BP bang-stick with decent lead bullet velocity.

For my own purposes, I have tried  to throw "one grain" of Bulleseye by volume and have failed to consistantly manage it better than +/- 20-30 % ; sometimes much worse. I tried dribbling powder into my scale to measure 1 gr and 2gr, and it is a pain. Therefore I leave the technical aspects of the (highly controversial) smokeless experiments to others.

yhs
prof marvel
Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Percussion Caps, Pins, Needles, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards

Supplier of Useless Advice for All Occasions

Offline jdurand

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2669
  • Mostly Harmless
    • Company web site
Re: How NOT to post on this Forum
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2015, 11:58:13 PM »
I have a milligram scale for mixing some things.  Need fine pieces of chemical for that to work.
Standing on the edge of reality... (me)
Quando omni flunkus moritati (Red Green)
Let no man belong to another that can belong to himself. (Paracelsus)
All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison. (Paracelsus)
NRA Life Member, Gun Owners of California member