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Author Topic: 1851 Navy Reproductions  (Read 5855 times)

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Offline sourdough

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1851 Navy Reproductions
« on: January 02, 2015, 08:48:36 PM »
I am a noob to this forum. Have been lurking for quite some time.

I just bought a Pietta 1851 Colt .36 reproduction from Cabela's for $200, $5 shipping and state sales tax of $14 +/-. Good value insofar as I am concerned.

I am somewhat pleased with it. The wood does not fit the frame very well (oversized), but fits the grip frame well. I can fix that. The bluing and polishing of the barrel and cylinder is good. The color-case hardening was well done. It took a bit of actuating the action to get the revolver to smoothly go to full cock. I will mostly use this as a display piece until...

I want a conversion cylinder that uses .38 Special low powered ammo. I understand that the barrel bore is .375 and the .38 Special is .357. I am not looking for superb accuracy here.

Would a Uberti R & D cylinder fit a Pietta frame?

Or would this be better:

http://www.howelloldwestconversions.com/shop/productinfo.cfm?catID=261&productid=805&cfid=484118&cftoken=74db1bfab6fd3c46-C7C3F0D2-C29F-29A9-6E8C39E6F533F41D

Any help would be appreciated.


Offline ninetoes

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 09:37:54 PM »
Well first off, welcome aboard !
Ok so you got the .36, and you want to convert it to cartridge. You seem to know the (severe) limitations. If you just gotta convert it, use the correct cylinder:
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/cartridge-conversions/1851-1861-navy-conversion-cylinders/conversion-cylinder-for-pietta-1851-1861-navy-revolvers-38lc-blue.html it will save you some headaches.
With the Colt open tops, be sure to use very conservative -read "wimpy"- loads. They are NOT kidding about that. DO NOT use any "standard velocity" rounds or, God forbid, +P ammo. Cowboy loads only! You know that unless you load your own you'll do well to hit the side of a barn, from the inside, with the doors closed, right? Honestly, the .36 conversions are a specialty thing; the .44 versions work much better. I love my open top .36s;I have two 51s and a fluted 61 sheriffs model. But conversions? .44 Remington to .45 Colt is the way to go.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:48:37 PM by ninetoes »
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Offline Hawg

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 06:36:57 AM »
If you reload you can use heeled bullets or hollow based bullets. Standard bullets are going to rattle down the bore like a marble in a sewer pipe.
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Offline sourdough

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2015, 07:03:06 AM »
Thanks!

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2015, 07:33:23 AM »
Hi sourdogh, jump on over to the "Welcome Wagon" and tell us a few things about yourself. How did you find this Great Forum?
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 08:38:06 AM »
Hi sourdogh, welcome to the group. As ninetoes suggests, buy a conversion cylinder for your Pietta from Taylor Firearms. Taylor offers that cylinder for the lowest cost.

While 0.375 heel based bullets will work best for target accuracy, the hollow based 148 .358" wadcutter bullet will work well for practical shooting. If you handload, check out the Speer 148gr .358 HBWC. You can probably use factory Sellier & Bellot 148gr 38 Special .357 HBWC if you don't reload. The hollow base in the wadcutter bumps up from 0.357 to 0.375" in the bore when the bullet if fired.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 07:39:04 AM by ssb73q »
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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2015, 02:29:39 PM »
Dear Sourdogh,
            While many on this forum would disagree with me, I always stoutly maintain, that the open topped Colt design of Percussion revolver, is a badly designed Piece of Crap!  The ONLY reason Colt sold so many, and got so many Government Contracts, is that he was a superb Salesman, and he made gifts of Engraved Pistols, with Ivory Grips and the engraving inlaid with Gold and silver, to "People Of Influence!"  In other words, Generals, Politicians, and Heads of State.  He never made a present of a plain one, to anyone who might try and FIGHT with the Useless thing!  If it didn't jam., because the cap got sucked off the nipple, and fell into the innards of the gun, It took so long to exchange an empty cylinder for a fresh one, that if the danger was still present, you were dead before you could get the empty cylinder OFF the gun.  Then in the throes of battle, when the most dedicated pistolero could get a little anxious! Just imagine a cavalryman, whose horse is also a little upset, because of all the scrap metal flying about, pulling back the wedge, then pulling off the barrel, then trying to recall which pocket the spare cylinder is in, the gun is now in three pieces, but we humans only have two hands. So imagine the poor Cavalryman, with both hands full dealing with a revolver now in three parts, with an excited horse beneath him!! It would not surprise me if all three parts of the gun got dropped underhoof, in all the excitement! Four if you count the fresh loaded cylinder the poor guy has managed to extract from wherever!!!!
            Compare the utility of the superb Remington Design.  Once a few shots have been fired through the new gun, it soon smooths out, and if you imagine once again our Cavalryman, if he has fired his six shots, all the has to do is put the gun on half cock, lower the loading lever and drop out the cylinder, then replace the cylinder with the loaded one, press the base pin back in , raise and lock the loading lever in place, and he is fully loaded once more.  I could, when in practice, change a cylinder on a Remington Revolver in under ten seconds. (Seven seconds was my record!)  With the Colt design, I could never change to a fresh cylinder in under 45 seconds!
            Now I am the first to admit that I am a, "Dyed In The Wool Traditionalist!"  I don't WANT any Conversion Cylnders! I have 15 spare Cap & Ball cylinders, and since the F.B.I. (That means Famous but Incompetent!) tell us that the average number of shots fired in a gunfight is 2.5 shots, (And I'll bet that Point Five of a round is a trick to shoot, don't you?) I doubt that a cylinder change would be necessary, However, if one DID get into conflict with a group of Gang-banger's, the ability to swap a cylinder out would be very comforting to Your Truly! 
            I am also willing to admit that I am eccentric!  I DO carry an 1858 Remington, (The 5.5" barreled Sheriff's Model.) for Self
Defense!  I have developed a load, that gets a rather High Velocity, and with a pure lead .457 ball, this load would almost certainly discourage any Felonious Person, who had the misfortune to stop one twixt Wind and Water!  If I didn't get flustered, and badly miss my aim, I think it quite probable, that the only medical person that would be able to assist the poor fellow, would be the Medical Examiner!  Maybe called the Coroner in your "Neck o' the woods!"
            I join with the other members in wishing you a very sincere  and WARM       (D@         And sincerely hope you will enjoy the fellowship of us all.  There is probably several hundred years of Collective Black Powder Weapon Expertise gathered here at any given moment. So do not feel afraid to ask about ANYTHING you feel uncertain about.  There is no such thing as a Dump Question!  Only Dumb Mistakes, made because you DIDN'T Ask the question!     
                                   Sincerely,                                                    Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 03:42:25 PM »
Dear Sourdogh,
            While many on this forum would disagree with me, I always stoutly maintain, that the open topped Colt design of Percussion revolver, is a badly designed Piece of Crap! 
                                   Sincerely,                                                    Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Hi Johnnie, yes I disagree!!

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Hawg

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 03:53:44 PM »
Dear Sourdogh,
            While many on this forum would disagree with me, I always stoutly maintain, that the open topped Colt design of Percussion revolver, is a badly designed Piece of Crap! 
                                   Sincerely,                                                    Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.



Hi Johnnie, yes I disagree!!

Regards,
Richard


Likewise. For its intended purpose it is plenty strong enough. Plus it looks better, feels better and mine usually shoot better than a Remington. The only real advantage a Remington has is its easier to swap cylinders. Which is a modern practice not day.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline G Dog

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 05:05:27 PM »
Dang, but Misto Johnnie sure am down on Colts, which is ok, he’s been around the block more than a few times and I value his views though not necessarily agreeing with some of them.

But a Navy a “piece of crap”?  I earnestly think not.

My two boys and I went out just this week with two .44 Remingtons and two .36 Colts (’51 and ’61 Piettas).  We each fired about 60 rounds while alternating pistols.  We had one dud cap (just smoked and fizzed w/o powder ignition) and exactly one (1) cap jam.  The jam was in a 5.5 inch Remington (!) like Johnnie’s, the jam easily came right out with tweezers.

This evidence is purely anecdotal I know… I love Remingtons, you bet, but I love Colts too.  Nothing wrong with Colt Army/Navys, couldn’t get by without em. 

Notwithstanding the above…all respects to Gunslinger9378.  {Hey Johnnie!!}

Big welcome to Sourdogh  Shoot that Navy as is, you'll love it.

 




« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 05:11:54 PM by G Dog »
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Offline Dellbert

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 05:34:18 PM »
I have both Remington & Colt have no problem with either. I choose to keep my upon top 36s powder and ball. The only way I would convert one would be to go the whole nine years to where I didn't have to take the cylinder out to reload. Welcome to the forum.
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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 06:59:20 PM »
Dear Sourdogh,
            While many on this forum would disagree with me, I always stoutly maintain, that the open topped Colt design of Percussion revolver, is a badly designed Piece of Crap! 
                                   Sincerely,                                                    Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Hi Johnnie, yes I disagree!!

Regards,
Richard

Count me in. 

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Offline Classanr

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 08:48:53 PM »
So now I'm wondering when Johnnie goes to the outhouse, does it eventually fill up with Colts?
You know, like they used to with "medicine" bottles?
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2015, 09:35:35 PM »
Ford trucks, Chevy trucks.....
As to the Remmy having superior design qualities; we can't deny that. But the Colt repros look like a million bucks, and point and shoot like nothing else out there. Especially the Navy.
Let's not disparage a man for his choice of BP firearm, but rather, congratulate him on finding a nice one and help him out with his questions and get him pointed in the right direction, rather than post a diatribe on how he picked the wrong....err, "truck"?
Just my 2 cents and worth every penny.
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Offline BOOMSTICK BRUCE

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Re: 1851 Navy Reproductions
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 02:49:51 AM »
Johnny, the guys got 2 freakin posts, nice welcome there calling his gun "crap".

real good way to make someone feel good about the forum.

sometimes you should keep your opinions to yourself


btw, welcome to the forum sour dough! i have a colt open top myself, a walker, i have had several colt open tops in the past. they are good guns, i just prefer the site radius of the remingtons, but nothing can beat the BOOM factor of my walker!
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