Author Topic: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket  (Read 11883 times)

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Offline ssb73q

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Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« on: September 29, 2014, 05:49:27 PM »
Hi, I have been waiting a year for a steel framed 1863 Pocket revolver to become available for purchase. They will be here in July, maybe August, probably September. Enough!!

Mike gave me a heads-up on a used steel framed 1863 Pietta with Kirst conversion cylinder being sold on GunBroker. I bid and I won it, see:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=442927426

I don't have it yet in hand, but I'm sure now one happy camper.  :) :) :)

Regards,
Richard
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Offline mike116

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 06:14:58 PM »
Glad to see it's in good hands now.   The steel ones don't come up for sale often.  Only one or two have been listed on GB in the last year or so.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 07:06:14 AM »
Glad to see it's in good hands now.   The steel ones don't come up for sale often.  Only one or two have been listed on GB in the last year or so.

Hi Mike, 1863 steel frame owners don't seem to want to let go of their revolvers. Listening to Johnnie, one would think that the owners would pay anyone that would take their 1863 from them.  ;) ;)

While the seller didn't know who did the .32 S&W conversion, it's easy to see that it is a Kirst conversion. Kirst doesn't make a conversion cylinder for the Pietta 1863 anymore. Only Howell (Taylor) offer a .32 S&W conversion cylinder for the Pietta 1863. Another advantage I had in this sale is that while the seller said he would only transfer to an FFL dealer, he agreed with me that he could ship the revolver frame and cylinder separately and avoid any FFL involvement. I was concerned he would modify his listing description before a bid locked up his description. That's why I bid early.  It seems that I was overly concerned about bidding competition that never came. Maybe other potential bidders read Johnnie's diatribe on the merits of owning a Remington 1863 Pocket revolver?   )L$ (?^ ->i

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline mazo kid

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 10:14:01 AM »
Richard, I was going to suggest the shipping of separate components, but you already had done that. Nice score. Let us see more photos when you get the gun.

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 08:28:48 PM »
Dear Friends,
            I like Richard, and I am glad when something happens that makes him happy!  Whether he REMAINS happy after he has shot the thing, is in the lap of the gods.  Now I had a pair of Brass framed guns.  I would not DREAM of giving houseroom to a brass framed .44 or even a .36, as with the loads I use, they would become wall ornaments in two cylinders worth of shooting!
            However I reasoned that with the Teensy-Weensy loads that are all the chambers of that particular revolver will take, I had no need to worry, since a robust house-fly could tense his pectoral muscles, and bounce a ball from such a revolver right back at the shooter, without straining himself.  SO, how happy Richard remains, after he has actually shot a little lead pill from the mouse gun,is something we shall all have to wait for with baited breathe!
            I know that I stuffed as much powder into the chambers of my two brassers, as my not so mighty arm would permit, using a .32 Rifle Ball Starter, and (At that time.) a leather worker's hide mallet, and pounded the powder with that until there was only just room to get he ball flush with the end of the cylinder. A couple of balls I actually had to shave off the very front off, in order for the cylinder to rotate!
            Messrs Cumpston and Bates, who tested and fired the Remington Pocket Revolver, and wrote of the experience in their
Masterly Work, "Percussion Revolvers, A Guide to their History, Performance and Use," stated that the gun appeared to e very well made, and cycled smoothly, and it handled spent caps well, with only ONE malfunction in the first 40 rounds fired. This one malfunction must have been a," Doozey," for it was necessary to remove the cylinder to resolve the problem.  Using 12.5 grains of Swiss Holy Black, (The absolute maximum the chambers will take, and still permit the ball to become flush with the face of the cylinder.) They managed to get a ball to travel at 680 fps. (Like WOW!) The same weight of Pyrodex P got 609 fps.
While Goex, and some 90 years old Holy Black they had on hand, only produced 502 & 509 fps. respectively!
            In the accuracy department, the Remington pocket revolver they tested shot eight inches high of the point of aim at 30 feet.(Ten yards!) and two inches to the left!  They also said that the 60 grain bullet they used to test the Colt Pocket revolvers would not fit under the loading lever on the Remington Pocket. 
            They finished their remarks on the pistol by saying, with regard to the powder charge: "It would be reasonable to regard the 12.5 grain charge as optimum, since it is the maximum that will fit in the chambers, and lesser charges would only
exacerbate the already puny performance of the small revolver."  Which sums up my feeling on this pistol, though had I written my thoughts on the matter, I might not have been quite so polite.
            While loading the Swiss powder into the gun, because this powder is very dense, they had to use some force to get the ball far enough down, so that the cylinder would rotate. In doing so they broke the loading lever. A replacement from VTI took about a week to arrive, and in the meantime, the carried on loading the miniscule revolver with a ball starter, and a mallet.  They also mentioned that others had had the same problem of the fragility f the loading lever, so perhaps it would be an idea if you desire to shoot this particular pistol, to be forewarned, and purchase a suitably sized ball starter, so that the cylinder may be loaded OFF the gun.  Speaking personally, it bugs the Hell outa me if some part of a gun breaks!
                                                                                                      Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 11:54:09 AM »
baited breathe!


Hi Johnnie, a Freudian slip? The correct form is bated breath, but then I do suspect you are baiting me?  )L$ (?^ ->i

I already own the Colt 1849 and Colt 1849 Wells Fargo .31s. Thy are a hoot to shoot with cap and ball and 32 S&W conversion cylinder. They are a cute as hell and very accurate for such a short sight radius. They are my most favorite handguns to fondle.

I expect the 1863 Pocket Remington to join that set.

I like small handguns, especially for carry. One of my favorites is my 10.7oz S&W337 with laser grips loaded with .38 Special +P Golden Sabers. It disappears in a front jean pocket  see:



BTW, if you think a fly will stop a +P Golden Saber see this:


Regards,
Richard


 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 01:12:33 PM by ssb73q »
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Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 02:10:35 PM »
I kinda agree with Johnnie.
However with a little fine tuning it might make an ok ankle gun as a backup.
Or if you are someplace not feasible or fashionable to carry fullsize.
on hip or shoulder holster.
And they might be a hoot to shoot,  maybe even a little cheaper especially for target practice.
smaller ball   less lead   cheaper   less powder capability  cheaper.
But if you are like Johnnie and carry for self defense, how much is your life worth.
Yeah I know there are guns out there today that are likely better suited for S.D.
But, these worked fine for about  75 yr, before smokeless and the 1911 came along and before everybody got
converted to cartridge.
But I'd have one around just for the hell of it.
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
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Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 03:31:15 PM »
I kinda agree with Johnnie.


Hi DD, why am I not surprised.  ;) ;)

I would never use a 19th century firearm for personal defense. There are much better choices today.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 08:56:10 PM »
I kinda agree with Johnnie.


Hi DD, why am I not surprised.  ;) ;)

I would never use a 19th century firearm for personal defense. There are much better choices today.

Regards,
Richard
I would  and I have used a 44 Remington NMA as a self defense.  Meaning I actually fired the thing, to prevent bodily harm to myself. 
The cowboys and the army (both sides) used it quite successfully.  It did it then it will do it again.
it's primarily in the user skills.
Colt, beretta, sig saur,  to name a few, that went to a 14 or 15 round clip. Was for the bozos that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, from inside the barn. More fire power (ammo in the clip) is wasted if you can't hit the target in the first place.
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
------------
Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 12:52:26 PM »
Hi DD, do you legally own any modern handguns?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Online Dellbert

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 11:43:59 PM »
Hi DD, do you legally own any modern handguns?

Regards,
Richard

I have to go along with DD on this one. More bullets want do much good if it's the first shot you need. We got along a long time before the autos showed up. After all the SD gun is not made to attack with but could take on that role if needed. I have all but put modern guns on the back burner to get the most out of the bp firearms. The 58 or 60s any of these old handguns will do the job as long as you do yours. That would be to pick the gun that fits you, train yourself with that gun, shoot it often. Once it becomes a part of you I believe your off to a good start. (T^
If it's not broke don't try fixin it.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2014, 11:58:40 AM »
Hi, my used steel framed 1863 Remington Pocket revolver just came in the door. A quick look over shows that the revolver is in great shape. While the seller on GunBroker professed ignorance on who made the 32 S&W conversion cylinder, it is obviously a Kirst. The revolver is very tight and timing is perfect, I'm happy.

The first thing that surprised me was how small is the 1863 revolver. It's tiny compared to the .31 Colt 1849 Pocket. This 1863 Remington is the cutest revolver I now own. See this photo comparing the 1863 Remington pocket against the 1849 Colt:



I'll shoot it tomorrow and report back on how well it shoots.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2014, 12:06:29 PM »
I hope you aren't using that there measuring stick to actually measure anything.
I got bow and arrow bows straighter than that stick!! )L$ )%R M__
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
------------
Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 01:58:52 PM »
Hi, my used 1863 Remington Pocket is so damn cute that it needs a companion. I ordered a new brass framed Pietta 1863 Pocket from DGW, see:
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=898&osCsid=i2o4nk57kap5cik958is59gvs6

This brass framed 1863 will be used for display next to my full sized 1858 Remington engraved revolver. While the brass framed 1863 Pocket isn't as desirable as the steel framed 1863 it is historically correct. Very few brass framed 1863 Remington Pockets were produce.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Tired of waiting for a new 1863 Pocket
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 08:21:15 AM »
Hi, shot my used steel framed 1863 Remington Pocket with 32 S&W Kirst conversion cylinder using 78gr Laser Cast bullets with 1.5gr Trail Boss powder. This revolver is surprisingly accurate for such a tiny handgun, I was getting 3-1/2" groups @25yds. I did have a couple of misfires that seem to be a hammer face shape issue. I think that a little filing of the hammer face will cure this problem, we shall see.

IMO after one has a number of full sized 1858 Remington, the baby 1863 Remington is a nice addition to any BP revolver collection.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!