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Author Topic: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun  (Read 2389 times)

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Offline BrianB

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My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« on: May 14, 2014, 08:15:10 PM »
I own two Remington 1858 black powder revolver replicas by Pietta but this is my first gun (black powder or otherwise) actually made by Remington.

It seems like a fine piece.  Of course it seems drastically out of place compared to the normal guns folks post here.

At first glance one might think I was crazy and this is just a ordinary everyday Remington 700 rifle, but it's a Remington 700ML muzzleloading .50 caliber rifle.  Those of you who aren't as new to muzzleloading as I am were probably aware they exist but it was a complete surprise to me when I found her at the show.

At the show we were scanning long guns looking for for muzzloaders.  The ramrod beneath the barrel told my brain "muzzleloader" but then as my eyes followed down the lines of the racked gun I saw that it was a Remington 700 and was confused.  Imagine my surprise to find that Remington once made a muzzleloader on the venerable 700 action.  Apparently Remington stopped making these in 2004.

Sadly the dealer that had it had let it sit, WET, in a case after it and its case got heavily rained on packing out from the prior show a week ago.  Pretty much every place two parts came together there was RUST.  It was enough to make you cry.  I had to rescue the gun. 

I bought it, took it home, disassembled every last piece, gave it a thorough scrubbing with 0000 steel wool and CLP and got all the rust out of her.  There isn't much remaining evidence of the travesty perpetrated against this gun.  If you remove the gun from the stock you can see some pitting where the barrel had laid against the stock (with water held in there by capillary action) but the rust is gone.  On the parts of the gun that are visible when assembled there is nearly no evidence.  The trigger guard was so rusty that I had to sand it to the bare metal and re-paint it, but that was the worst of it.  Fortunately the bore didn't get wet at all and there wasn't a speck of rust or anything else in there - it is flawless.

Speaking of the barrel, the saddest part of the whole travesty is that looking at the bore and the breech plug, it appears to me that this gun has NEVER BEEN FIRED.  That's going to change this weekend.  I have a pound of Pyrodex RS, a pound of Goex 2F, a pound of Olde Eynsford 2F, a pound of Swiss 2F, and a pound of Black MZ, and I intend to try them all in this gun this weekend.

I have named the gun Khaleesi.  For you Game of Thrones fans you know that's the "mother of dragons" that was burnt in a funeral pyre and emerged unscathed the next day.  I was considering Phoenix for the name but my 5.5" 1858 is named Tyrion (you GoT fans will get the joke of naming a short barreled gun Tyrion) so it seemed fitting to go with Khaleesi.

Anyway, sorry for posting such a modern gun, but I'm quite delighted to have rescued this gun from utter destruction and to have it in my collection.

Offline Dellbert

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 09:30:31 PM »
Right cool rifle BrianB  (T^

If it's not broke don't try fixin it.

Offline JAX71224

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
 ])M A friend of mine has one of those. He uses it for deer season. Remington even ok'd this muzzle loader for smokeless powder! They had a few recomended smokeless powders and loads. get a manual for it and it will probably list those few loads! :9)

Offline BrianB

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 02:55:58 PM »
])M A friend of mine has one of those. He uses it for deer season. Remington even ok'd this muzzle loader for smokeless powder! They had a few recomended smokeless powders and loads. get a manual for it and it will probably list those few loads! :9)

Interesting.  Perhaps they did that after the manual was created.  I have the PDF of the manual from Remington and it says emphatically and often:

Quote
Never use modern smokeless gun powder even if it is black in color. Never use
any powder other than black powder or PYRODEX in a muzzleloader. The use of
any other propellant will cause serious injury or death to the shooter and
bystanders and damage to the firearm.

WARNING! The use of ANY quantity of smokeless gun powder in this muzzleloading
firearm will produce dangerously high pressures which WILL result in
serious injury or death to the shooter and bystanders, and damage to the firearm.

If Remington ever published an approved smokeless load for these I'd love to have the information.  I have read a bit about "smokeless muzzleloaders" and find the topic somewhat interesting.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 12:40:50 AM »
Nice!  Let us know how she shoots.

Offline sh00ter787

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 05:12:40 AM »
Very nice, tbh I wasn't aware of such a beast in this layout! Does the bolt just expose cap or is it a more exotic firing mech?
 ???

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2014, 11:33:27 AM »
please some pictures of the action open and closed
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Offline JAX71224

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
 {:( HEY I WAS WRONG!!!! IT WAS A SAVAGE AND NOT  THE REMINGTON!! TO USE SMOKELESS IN THE 700ML , IT WOULD NEED TO BE RE-BARRELED FOR THAT PURPOSE TO BE SAFE. PLEASE DON'T JUST LOAD UP WITH ANY SMOKELESS IN A STOCK REM 700ML. I FEEL LIKE SUCH AN IDIOT........... :-[

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2014, 11:33:56 PM »
Yes, it WAS the Savage and NOT the Remington.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline BrianB

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Re: My new (to me) Remington black powder gun
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2014, 09:50:17 PM »
Sorry for the delay in replying.  Been a bit tied up.  I did get Khaleesi out to the range this weekend and she shoots great.  100% reliable.  Accuracy seems good and any problems are definitely me at this point.  She shoots one hole at 50 yards with round ball over 60 grains of Olde Eynsford, topped with 1.3 cc's of grits, using a TC pillow ticking patch.

As requested I took some pictures of the action.  The bolt serves to cock the striker and to give clearance to get to the nipple.  It fires from a closed bolt.

Below are 4 pictures.  In order they are:
  • Bolt open (cocks striker and makes room to install/remove cap)
  • Bolt open with view of face of striker
  • Bolt closed, cocked (striker to the rear - ready to fire)
  • Bolt closed, fired (striker has been released striking cap)
There are 3 nipples available for the gun.  The #11 nipple is standard.  Also available are a musket nipple and a 209 primer nipple.  The striker is actually sort of a cup.  It's pretty big.  I'd guess that's so you don't need something different when going to a musket cap or 209 primer.  I have only shot it with #11 caps at this point.  I have the musket and 209 primer nipples on order.

It also comes with a "weather guard" (not shown) which is just a little cylinder that slips onto the bolt so that when it is closed you can't see the nipple at all - the whole thing is shielded from the weather.  You're not supposed to use it except during inclement weather as it blows all the crud into the bolt and cruds the bolt up fast.  I haven't done it, but seeing all the crud that accumulates without the weather guard, and imagining all that crud being inside the bolt, I understand why you don't want to use it if you don't need it.

Any other questions or picture requests let me know.