Author Topic: 1858 BP for CAS  (Read 6662 times)

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Offline Beaumont

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1858 BP for CAS
« on: January 21, 2013, 02:00:05 AM »
Bonjour,
So I am just starting out Cowboy shooting, and as you may magine, it's not as big here in France than it is in the US. So getting equipped here is a little harder (I have to travel 1hr30 to go to the club... but at least I have a club), the gun laws are tighter etc...
At the minute I am shooting 2 Pietta Remington 1858 Cap and ball 44cal.
I really REALLY love these 2 guns and after a bit of DIY they work without fail.
A lot of people are telling me that I will grow tired of having to clean them and all (which at the moment I love doing), and so advise me to get cartridge guns. There is no rush because I have to wait 6 months for the authorisation to own cartridge guns.

1. Do you agree with that? Or can I compete with my cap and balls and have an equal chance of winning than if I was using cartridge guns?

2. If I was to get a cartrige gun, have any of you tried the Uberti Remington 1858 converted model?
I tried the 1875 which is great, but I love so much my 58 I'd rather stick to that model

Thanks for the help

Offline BOOMSTICK BRUCE

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 06:53:11 AM »
i shot a few meets last year with my remmy and walker ( (^h). the best thing i discovered is use Vaseline or Crisco on the cylinder pin so it doesn't gum up. also get some cap retainers, they are little rubber things that slip over the can and nipple and keep the caps from falling off before and during shooting. one f the guys there had his remmys machined out behind the cylinder like the old colts were to help with the cap jam issues...

the best thing about CAS, its not all about winning, its about fun, and you will have alot of it!!!
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Offline Beaumont

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 09:47:46 AM »
Suzuki thanks for the advice, I'm gonna look into that.
I wonder if I can order them from the US  (^h

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 09:54:53 AM »
Hi Beaumont, can you get a .45LC con. cylinder for your 58 Remmy?
If you did get one, then you can shoot Cowbot Action .45LC ammo in your 58 Remmy.
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Offline Beaumont

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 01:57:14 PM »
Hey Mad Dog, nah they don't seem to import those in France, I'll see if I can get them from the US but I doubt it  :(

Offline HAGEN

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 03:20:58 PM »
Beaumont

I Shoot Pietta 5 1/2 58s In SASS. Frontiersman Catagory Cap & Ball
I use 8 Cylinders(So Far) Loaded Before A Match. Since we Shoot 6 Stages In A Match I Only Reload 4  Cylinders.
(My plan to end Up With 12 Cylinders To Elimanate Reloading In A Match)
Shooting A Black Powder Substitute -  American Pioneer Powder
Clean Up Is With WD40 & Windex With Vinager ( C&B Cylinders=Windex )(Cartridge Cylinders=WD40)
Lube Is With Militec 1
As Far As Cartridge Revolvers , My Preference Is Ruger New Vaqueros Shooting The Same Powder
Be Carefull, Making White Smoke And Cowboy Action Shooting Are Addictive.


Hagen
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 04:57:28 PM by HAGEN »
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Offline GrayFox

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 03:52:22 PM »
Here in the states I am a SASS life member.  I shot Frontiersman class for about a year a few years back as kind of a break from full cartridge classes.  I shot a pair of Pietta 58s with two extra cylinders.  Based on the stages we shot I still had plenty of time to reload.  I played with paper cartridges for them for a while, but switched back to regular powder charges when I continually ended up with unburned cigarette paper in the cylinders which I had to dig out with a metal cleaning pick.  That really slowed down reloading the cylinders.  I shot Pyrodex P the whole time because real BP was hard to find locally.

I shot Pyrodex RS loaded plastic 12 gauge shotgun shells in a side by side double barrel which I loaded myself with 80 grains of powder and 1 ounce of #7 shot.

I shot Pyrodex P loaded .45 Colt loads in my rifle, a Rossi '92 carbine.  For me, anyway, an 1892 Winchester pattern lever action is very hard to clean because as fast as you have to shoot during the stages you end up with lots of powder residue in the action and a '92 can be a bear to take a part and reassemble.  Consequently, I bought an 1873 Winchester copy in .45 colt since it was a lot easier to clean the toggle style action by removing the action side plate.

It was lots of fun to shoot in the Frontiersman class because when you opened up with all the really loud booms and lots of smoke people really stood around and watched.  The only real problem I sometimes encountered was that in stages that were set up in areas bermed  on 3 sides by 10-12 foot high berms the smoke could actually obscure the far rifle targets unless there was a pretty good breeze blowing.  Still, it was a whole lot of fun to shoot that class.  GF

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 04:44:58 PM »
did your "friends" forget to tell you, you have to clean cartridge guns too?

even fully modern with smokeless powder you still need to clean them
Everybody has their own way.
When at a range plinking I carry a small squirt bottle of rubbing alcohol
Depending on how stiff it is getting, I either just squirt and clean the cylinder face and pin
or pull the cylinder and clean. re-lube and go to firing.
End of day you can use just hot soapy water scrub, rinse and dry and lube
or just use the rubbing alcohol.
I use the alcohol.
Long time ago I bought a tube of CVA (brand name) black powder lube (big squeeze tube, lube looks like white toothpaste--kinda).
I removed the trigger guard, cleaned and oiled. Then filled it full of the lube. Now I clean that area about once a year. No corrosion after 30 yr.

In reality these aren't any harder to clean than cartridge. And many converted cartridges use BP anyway. So you got the same cleaning to do.
Have fun shooting!!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 03:16:49 PM by DD4lifeusmc »
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Offline Beaumont

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 04:56:41 AM »
Hey thanks guys, really informative.
I shoot Suisse Powder N°1, it's really cool powder and not as dirty as PNF2 French powder other guys use here.
I actually really like cleaning my 58s, it's part of the charm.
I do have a pair of extra cylinders, but I need more. They cost around 100 euros here, which is around 130 dollars I would expect  {:(

Offline GrayFox

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 11:48:54 AM »
D4:

By your comment I would believe that you've never had to clean the residue of shooting over 100 rounds of Pyrodex or BP out of a '92 action before.  I live in the humid South and during the summer months you'd better get that action cleaned pronto.  On the the other hand, since I load my CASS smokeless cartridges with Universal Clays powder and new brass looks to be unfired on the inside after firing and leaves practically no residue after 100 rounds.

Things like like are expecially critical to me since my wife and I both shoot SASS shoots which means on a typical day I will have 4 .45 Colt revolvers, 2 .45 Colt rifles, a 20 ga and a 12 ga double barrel shotgun to clean as well as a single shot .45-70 to clean.  If I'm shooting Frontiersman Class, then 2 .44 pistols with 4 cylinders, one .45 rifle, 1 12 ga and the .45-70 absolutely have to be clean upon returning home.  My wife's guns, on the other hand, can wait all week if necessary with only a surface wipe down.  Oh, and all my brass shot with Pyro has to been cleaned the same day, too.

So yes, I have been taught to clean weapons and I know the difference that Pyro or BP make to my processes.  Thank you for your input.  GF

Offline Beaumont

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »
I didn't think you could actually load BP in a 92. Some guys here tried on a 66 and 73 and it didn't work well

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 03:27:18 PM »
D4:

By your comment I would believe that you've never had to clean the residue of shooting over 100 rounds of Pyrodex or BP out of a '92 action before.  I live in the humid South and during the summer months you'd better get that action cleaned pronto.  On the the other hand, since I load my CASS smokeless cartridges with Universal Clays powder and new brass looks to be unfired on the inside after firing and leaves practically no residue after 100 rounds.

Things like like are expecially critical to me since my wife and I both shoot SASS shoots which means on a typical day I will have 4 .45 Colt revolvers, 2 .45 Colt rifles, a 20 ga and a 12 ga double barrel shotgun to clean as well as a single shot .45-70 to clean.  If I'm shooting Frontiersman Class, then 2 .44 pistols with 4 cylinders, one .45 rifle, 1 12 ga and the .45-70 absolutely have to be clean upon returning home.  My wife's guns, on the other hand, can wait all week if necessary with only a surface wipe down.  Oh, and all my brass shot with Pyro has to been cleaned the same day, too.

So yes, I have been taught to clean weapons and I know the difference that Pyro or BP make to my processes.  Thank you for your input.  GF

No I haven't. But we were speaking generally and primarily 1858 style revolvers.
Again, while at the range I use a little rubbing alcohol to dissolve the surface residue a q tip or small rag on a pencil or such.
If really stiff I pull the cylinder and clean better still with alcohol. It evaporates fast.
if need be I will swab out the barrel with alcohol too.
In my spring mechanism area, as I said. I thoroughly clean, then lube the parts. then pack full with the cva grease. with it packed full, no place for the smoke residue to get into it. Just  the flange frame surface between frame and trigger guard and not much there.
At night after the range I break down the cylinder and pin and loading lever. Thoroughly clean all with the alcohol.
I find the alcohol cleans as well as any of the commercial stuff a lot cheaper, and is available almost anywhere even on the road at some gas stations. Worse comes to worse, a can of gas line heet will work. JUST DON"T SMOKE WHILE USING IT!
I use a can of Brake clean to spray down in the HAMMER, with the frame held upside down. But really haven't found much in that area.
Lube reassemble, throw in a paper cartridge, load the ball cap, and put back on the nightstand.
But as in all things each to his own, based on need, desire, circumstance, conditions.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 08:16:11 AM by DD4lifeusmc »
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
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Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline Saranac Sam

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 04:34:37 PM »
Beaumont, best advice I got from anybody in CAS is to "Shoot what you like."  I'm 70, there are itchy twitchy 20-year-olds with slicked up race guns in the Gunslinger class that shoot at blinding speeds and I'm never going to catch them  :)  I like shooting BP revolvers in the Frontiersman class, and I'm in the Senior class, so I can shoot what I like.  The second thing he said to me was "Just have fun!"

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Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2013, 12:16:55 PM »
"Just have Fun!" that's what counts!  ;)
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Offline Hawg

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Re: 1858 BP for CAS
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2013, 02:58:34 PM »
D4:

By your comment I would believe that you've never had to clean the residue of shooting over 100 rounds of Pyrodex or BP out of a '92 action before.  I live in the humid South and during the summer months you'd better get that action cleaned pronto.

I live in the bottom half of Mississippi and shoot Pyrodex. If you shoot 44-40 you will never have to tear down a 92 to clean the insides, just leave a fired case in the chamber to catch the bore crud. This wont work with .45 Colt or other straight walled cases. I try to clean the same day after shooting but I sometimes go a day or two without cleaning anything I've shot with no ill effects.
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