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Author Topic: Conical Bullet - What is it?  (Read 258 times)

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Offline Retreever

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Conical Bullet - What is it?
« on: May 30, 2019, 11:07:22 AM »
Back in the winter I purchased a Uberti 1858 New Model Army cap and ball revolver (used), I also purchased a Kirst Konverter for the gun and I have shot .45 lc cartridges at my local range.

The outdoor range opened last week and I am getting prepared for my first time firing black powder.

Along with the gun came an assortment of bullets which the previous owner said could be used with the gun, the majority of them are .451 round ball which is ok according to the Uberti documentation.

However there is a quantity of conical bullets (see pics) - these obviously can't be loaded directly as they are too small for the cap and ball cylinder.

Are they suitable for re-loading in a .45 lc cartridge? Or should I be looking for a new home for these?

Thanks

Retreever

« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 04:06:45 AM by Retreever »
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Offline GrayFox

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 12:47:49 PM »
What you have are bullets cast from a Lee conical bullet mold that are specifically designed to be loaded with loose powder in place of a .454 round ball in a cap and ball revolver.  Bullets for .45 Colt would be .452 or .454.  I have that mold and cast them myself to shoot in My Pietta Colts and Remys.  Gray Fox

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 01:26:27 PM »
Depending on the gun, you might have to open up the window a smidge to get the Lee conical to fit. I have this problem mainly on Piettas, older ASP and ASM guns seem to have a larger window.
The conicals do pack a whallop on steel, though!
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Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 03:52:33 AM »
Hello Retreever,

When loading a cartridge for a revolver you will want to crimp the case into the bullet.
This will hold the bullet in the case while shooting, without crimping the bullet could move
out of the case during recoil. The same with a tube feed magazine rifle,
the spring in the tube can force the bullets deeper into the case.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Retreever

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 04:10:36 AM »
Thanks GreyFox, AntiqueSledMan and CaptainKirk.

Just to clarify these conical bullets drop right in to my black powder cylinder (no loading lever required) so I don't think they would be safe to shoot with loose powder. I'm assuming they are meant to be used with cartridges and crimp the casing.

Regards,
Retreever
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Online Centurion

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 05:09:36 AM »
Thanks GreyFox, AntiqueSledMan and CaptainKirk.

Just to clarify these conical bullets drop right in to my black powder cylinder (no loading lever required) so I don't think they would be safe to shoot with loose powder. I'm assuming they are meant to be used with cartridges and crimp the casing.

Regards,
Retreever

Are hollow based? If not, you don't have any chance to shoot it thru your revolver...because it won't take the rifling correctly and gases will escape all around the bullet.

Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 06:24:49 PM »
Hello Retreever,

I would have to wonder if your cylinder has been opened up, they should go in tight.
That's the same bullet I use to load 44 colt, after sizing to .451 & swaging a heel on the base.

I also wanted to welcome you to the forum, these guys are great & will provide all the help you need.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline mike116

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 09:12:19 PM »
The bullets only measure .44,  they aren't going to fit tight in a Uberti cylinder which I believe the factory says is .450.   

Offline Hawg

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 09:44:23 PM »
The bullets only measure .44,  they aren't going to fit tight in a Uberti cylinder which I believe the factory says is .450.   

They're not going to fit a .45 Colt case either. They will have to be sized down to fit a .44 case.
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Offline Retreever

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2019, 03:01:45 AM »
Thanks AntiqueSledMan, Hawg and Mike11 , sounds like about all these are good for is to pass on to someone or melt down and recast into something usable.

Regards, Retreever
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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2019, 05:28:30 AM »
Thanks AntiqueSledMan, Hawg and Mike11 , sounds like about all these are good for is to pass on to someone or melt down and recast into something usable.

Regards, Retreever

Exactly

Offline Pustic

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2019, 02:02:00 PM »
Thanks AntiqueSledMan, Hawg and Mike11 , sounds like about all these are good for is to pass on to someone or melt down and recast into something usable.

Regards, Retreever

Melt them down and make roundballs with them. The Lazer-Cast bullets I use are .452 in diameter.
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Offline Omnivore

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Re: Conical Bullet - What is it?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 01:06:29 PM »
Yeah; .440" is a freakish size.  Might be that they were cast from the Lee 450-200-1R mold, but if so they were seriously sailing to fill out the mold.  I'm wanting to see three digits after the decimal on that caliper though.  What's up with displaying only two?  That makes me suspicious.  In engineering and science, conventionally, the last digit displayed in the first one that's in doubt.  Think abot that for a bit.  If the hundredths are in doubt, then the bullet shown could be between .43" and .45", by the standard convention that I'm accustomed to.  See how that works?  So you'd have to read the manual for that caliper to find out what THEY mean by displaying only two decimal places.

This is why I like a good dial caliper.  For one thing I don't have to second-guess the programmers' assumptions or intent.

Also, for what it's worth, and being that you're new at this; Uberti chambers do tend to run right around .450", with occasional exceptions.  That means a .451" ball, while it will work, is really too small.  I like at least a .454" ball in a .450" chamber, and truly a .457" is good too, so long as it's pure lead.

HOWEVER; for a conical bullet it's a different story.  You see, when you load a ball there's no "drive band" length whatsoever unless the ball is oversized, so it shaves, or swaged down in diameter, forming a drive band, sealing the chamber, and giving the rifling something to bite into.  A conical already has drive bands, and so it doesn't need to be oversized, so long as it fits tight enough to not jump forward under recoil when another chamber is fired.  Usually that means the conical bullet can be right at chamber diameter, or maybe one thousandth over.  If it's shaving lead upon loading, all it's doing is making a little more fuss while loading, for no reason.  Since I lube-size my bullets, I size them right to chamber diameter, or one over.  No more.

That means, for a Uberti Remington having .450" chambers I size to .450".  For the Pietta having .447" chambers I now size to .448" (previously I sized them to .449" but they were still shaving a bit of lead).

Interestingly, if I make up a bunch of paper cartridges for the Pietta, bullets at .448", I can still use them in the Uberti in a pinch and they work fine.  That's because the paper case provides the difference.  It's not ideal, but it certainly works.  I prefer to have carts made up special for each gun though.

One Uberti Colt I have, it's chambers measure at .452", so that's more bullet inventory I have to keep.  .454" or .457" ball will of course work in all of them interchangeably.
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