The 1858 Remington Forum

General Black Powder Discussions => Gunsmithing/Tuning/Parts & Repairs => Topic started by: GrayFox on March 17, 2019, 09:47:30 AM

Title: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: GrayFox on March 17, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
I've posted this on the Cast Boolit  site so some of you might have seen my question there.  I'm posting here because of all the obvious knowledge about guns with nipples.  I bought a .45 T/C Hawken in nice shape last week, but found that what I thought was a shotgun primer adapter is a somewhat ancient Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter.  The original #11 nipple was conveniently stowed in the stock patch box.  My problem is that I cannot get the adapter out.  I'd leave it as it's supposed to provide more consistent and water resistant ignition, but I'd like to get it back to the cap system.  Additionally, when I fire a primer in it the primer anvil is blown into the snail area, and of course the screw in the side of the snail is frozen and buggered up.    I have soaked both screws with Kroil several times and allowed to soak overnight.  The deepest recess of the adapter seems to be sized for a 3/32 Allen wrench, but even using a Chapman handle with that size bit produces no movement, even after heating the area with a propane torch.  So, I'm laying this at the feet of this crew's innovative tinkerers to see if you've an idea. Thank you for any suggestions.  Gray Fox
Title: Re: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: AntiqueSledMan on March 17, 2019, 10:37:30 AM
Hello GrayFox,

Sounds like it's been in there for awhile. I would keep soaking it, I like aerokroil.
Then I'd heat it up & let it soak again a couple times. You could even heat it up
and then cool the Accra Shot with Dry Ice while the bolster is still hot. If all else
fails, drill it out. I believe you have 1/4-28 threads for your nipple so a #3 drill
would be the biggest to go, but I'd start smaller. If you had a set of left handed
drills, lots of times when breaking through, the object will spin out for you.

Good luck & go slow, AntiqueSledMan.
Title: Re: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: Omnivore on March 17, 2019, 11:19:16 AM
Yup.  Every screw extraction is different.  I noticed that, depending on the maker, the clean out screw can serve as a de facto locking screw for the nipple.  Before I remove the nipple on my Investarms barrel I must loosen the clean out screw.  And yes that's still the factory nipple and the factory clean out screw.

I assume you ran some kroil down the bore and into the breech chamber also.

Be patient.  There's no hurry.

Heat alone won't always help you.  It depends on the why the screw is not turning.  Thermal shock can do the trick where heat alone won't.  Ideally you'd want the whole breech plug hot and then to cool the screw.

Any shock might help.  That's why we have impact drivers.  Ultrasonics can sometimes do the trick here.

If you don't have a set of screw extractors and the experience in using them, you're at a significant disadvantage, generally speaking.

If worse comes to worse, you should be able to get a new breech plug for the barrel.  In that case it'd have to be fitted to the barrel and to the tang, so you'd need to understand how a breech plug is supposed to fit a breech and how a hocked breech plug is supposed to fit a tang.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with regular percussion caps.  Cleaning and loading mistakes, handling errors, failure to understand the patent breech system, and substitute powders that ignite at higher temperatures, are your only problems in that department.  Dispense with the errors and the substitute powders and you'll have no problems using #11 caps.
Title: Re: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: GrayFox on March 18, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
I have no problem whatsoever with the nipple and #11 sidelock cap situation and I've been shooting them for almost 40 years along with C&B revolvers.  That's why I want to get back to the original nipple systems for which I already have spares for my .54 Hawken.  If the screw on cap of this system self destructs or disappears I'm dead in the water.  Not to mention the primer anvils being blown into the snail and being unrecoverable and clogging up the ignition pathway.  GF
Title: Re: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: AntiqueSledMan on March 19, 2019, 05:12:39 AM
Hello Grey Fox,

Any luck?
I'm not sure on your Hawken about the cleanout screw holding the Acra Shot in place like Omni stated. I know on my old TC Hawken (1978), I never removed the clean out screw and the only way to remove it now would be to drill it. On my Lyman Great Plains Hunter you do need to loosen the cleanout screw to remove the nipple as it does lock against the nipple.

Again work slow and good luck, AntiqueSledMan.
Title: Re: How to remove an Accra Shot small rifle primer adapter from a T/C sidelock?
Post by: Omnivore on March 19, 2019, 02:28:42 PM
I always remove the cleanout screw, and then "slush pump" hot water through both the cleanout port and the nipple port (nipple removed).  Then there's the patent breach's powder chamber, which is smaller; I use a 35 caliber jag to swab down in there (always keeping a patch worm handy).

I don't know why they chose to drill the cleanout screw.  Many of the old snail breaches never had them.  I suppose it's just as easy to drill the flash channel from the right hand side, and then plug it with a "cleanout" screw.  The other method was to drill the flash channel from the left side and then plug it permanently with a flush-fit screw that could never be removed.  From the that perspective there would be no reason to remove the cleanout screw unless it's locking against the nipple threads like mine.  That is, unless you have a bunch of primer anvils in there, or some such silliness, and need to push them out.

Shown is a "traditional" Hawken hooked, snail breach, in the rough.  You see in the right side view the breach chamber, and the lack of a "cleanout".  In the left side view, can you spot the plugged, flash channel drill hole?  Yeah, so that's my case for explaining why they do the "cleanout", that it's just a bit simpler way of doing things, for the manufacturer.