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Other Black Powder Firearms => "Brand-X" => Colt Revolvers => Topic started by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 10:25:22 AM

Title: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 10:25:22 AM
TODAY, I acquired and ORIGINAL Colt Navy .36 and I mean ORIGINAL. Not been messed with and is mechanically perfect. I'm having trouble posting  ^y%
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 10:30:57 AM
All matching serial numbers, 12478. The bore has got all it's lands and grooves with the commensurate amount of pitting, the action is perfect. It has got a replica wedge in it at the moment but I have the original wedge as well.

There are two sets of nipples one original and one replacement. I don't know which is in the gun because it was handed to me capped and fully loaded.................Don't ask !

He used it as a shooter and tells me it shoots superbly. The grips and the brasswork are in excellent condition, no chunks out of the grips nor any cracks in them

I have no idea how old it is nor it's ballpark value, some thoughts and observations please gents................Assuming I can upload some photos ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Omnivore on March 04, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Very nice!  I can't tell you anything but what I see; the action may be perfect now, but apparently it was not so for a time-- That's probably the most horrific drag line I've ever seen; more of "drag canyon".  Still and all that's a very nice find.  Congratulations.

I look forward to a range report.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 11:47:54 AM
I wouldn't describe it as a "canyon" as I think it looks worse on the photos than it really is. You can feel it but it isn't deep. An English dealer is selling one, his has the squared trigger guard and other than the score line on the cylinder mine looks better than his, particularly the grips.

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/colt-colt-square-back-trigger-guard-1851-navy-36-revolver/Pistol-Hand-Guns/1036545 (https://www.gunstar.co.uk/colt-colt-square-back-trigger-guard-1851-navy-36-revolver/Pistol-Hand-Guns/1036545)
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 12:53:02 PM
Very nice!  I can't tell you anything but what I see; the action may be perfect now, but apparently it was not so for a time-- That's probably the most horrific drag line I've ever seen; more of "drag canyon".  Still and all that's a very nice find.  Congratulations.

I look forward to a range report.

Omni,

It will be a short range report because I just need to empty it. Six shots  :). I don't have any .36 round ball and I'm not going to buy any. The idea being is that I intend to move this along and make a few Euros on it.  Hopefully ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Omnivore on March 04, 2019, 01:59:44 PM
I didn't mean to make a terribly big deal of the drag line.  Just the inevitable observation in regard to "the action works perfectly".  Just make sure the cylinder turns freely at half cock, with no more of that bolt drag, is all.  And that in turn leads to the next inevitable observation that, if it works perfectly now, then what was done to it to fix the former bolt drag issue, e.g., a new hammer?
OK; well I for one would be interested to know whether it shoots to POA at, say, ten paces.
So you'll be wanting to sell it.  So; how much then?
Thanks for posting.  These things are fascinating.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 02:11:28 PM
No, no big deal, no offence taken. I asked for thoughts and observations and yours sure was an valid one. Thank you for that. As I say it looks worse on the pics than it is in real life. Yes the cylinder does rotate at half cock perfectly. It may well have been looked at, but it hasn't been "bodged" as we English say nor bastardised.

I'm very curious to see how  it shoots as well. I want to know how old it it is i.e the year of manufacture and a ball park value.

That dealer in England wants 3500 Pounds Sterling for a similar gun. I know that is waaaaay above American prices but I am curious to get a realistic value on it to sell it.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Len on March 04, 2019, 02:44:04 PM
Hello Nessie,
nice catch there.
I also at first reacted to the drag line. Comes from a worn down shank of the bolt arm. Can be cured by attaching some more material to the tip of the arm.
Otherwise looks just fine for an original.
 As to £3,500.-, I'm afraid that guy is way out of his depth. If you check out Holts Auctioneers in London, they usually have some Colts up for bidding. I expect yours would end up at around £2,000:- provisions and fees included (my original landed at 1,300.-)
(Just my tuppence)
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Dellbert on March 04, 2019, 02:48:53 PM
Nice Colt necessaryevil. Hawg should be along, he can probable tell you. Wonder were he is? Hope he didn't get caught up in those storms they had down there last night.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 03:35:22 PM
Hello Nessie,
nice catch there.
I also at first reacted to the drag line. Comes from a worn down shank of the bolt arm. Can be cured by attaching some more material to the tip of the arm.
Otherwise looks just fine for an original.
 As to £3,500.-, I'm afraid that guy is way out of his depth. If you check out Holts Auctioneers in London, they usually have some Colts up for bidding. I expect yours would end up at around £2,000:- provisions and fees included (my original landed at 1,300.-)
(Just my tuppence)

Thanks Len, just the sort of information I am looking for.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 04, 2019, 03:41:53 PM
Nice Colt necessaryevil. Hawg should be along, he can probable tell you. Wonder were he is? Hope he didn't get caught up in those storms they had down there last night.

Dellbert

Yeah I hope he is OK too is he in Alabama ? The house next door to me here in Spain is owned by Americans from Alabama. I have been looking at the weather there today. I need to contact them and make sure they are O.K.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 04:09:26 PM
It was made in 1852. I'm fine. I live in Mississippi next door to Alabama. 14 miles from the state line actually.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Omnivore on March 04, 2019, 04:42:11 PM
Quote
That dealer in England wants 3500 Pounds Sterling for a similar gun.

Holy smokes!  Yeah; they're being pretty optimistic there, unless that particular gun has some solid and fairly awesome "provenance" to go with it.

I spoke to a customer recently, who had one of a pair of silver platen, engraved Colt SAAs, and the story is, it was given to his grandfather by a judge in Texas who took the pair of them off a condemned cattle rustler, and furthermore that said rustler had stolen them.  It was a gift for helping the judge's son in college.

An original, engraved, silver-plated, black powder framed Colt (and he had the name of the engraver even) in good condition is worth a bundle as it is, but I told him that if he could get the cattle rustling case story (e.g. from a newspaper archive) from that town in Texas, etc., the gun would be worth two or three bundles, so to speak.  Get hold of the one of the two of them, and together they'd be worth a small third world country.

That was his story anyway, and it has at least one little hole in it.  What, for instance, happened to the man the rustler stole the fancy pair of pistols from?  There'd be a whole other story there too, of course, unless the crime for which the ristler was hanged included the murder of the owner of said fancy pistols...  Otherwise you'd think the pistols would have been returned to the rightful owner.  But then I suppose some judge might elect keep them as the "fee" for presiding over the case...seeing as they were so pretty and all...

Anyway, all of that there would be some real "provenance" if verifiable.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 05:44:18 PM
Buy the gun not the story.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 05, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
It was made in 1852. I'm fine. I live in Mississippi next door to Alabama. 14 miles from the state line actually.

Thanks Hawg, just what I was after  (T^
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 05, 2019, 10:10:20 AM
These European dealers are asking big bucks for these originals.

http://www.bolk-antiques.nl/inventory/revolvers/revolvers-american/a-very-nice-antique-american-civil-war-probably-us-army-issued-colt-model-1851-navy-6-shot-percussion-revolver-in-very-good-condition-price-3-500-euro-1423634 (http://www.bolk-antiques.nl/inventory/revolvers/revolvers-american/a-very-nice-antique-american-civil-war-probably-us-army-issued-colt-model-1851-navy-6-shot-percussion-revolver-in-very-good-condition-price-3-500-euro-1423634)
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Dellbert on March 05, 2019, 03:00:50 PM
That is a very cool web site necessaryevil. It will take some time to go through the whole thang. I see guns on there I would like to have. I see they have a YouTube web site to check out also. Thanks for it.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 07, 2019, 09:45:28 AM
That is a very cool web site necessaryevil. It will take some time to go through the whole thang. I see guns on there I would like to have. I see they have a YouTube web site to check out also. Thanks for it.

It is pretty cool isn't it. Your'e welcome  (T^
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 07, 2019, 10:22:23 AM
Omni,

You asked me for a range report........................Well here it is albeit a very brief six shots only !

I did it today.

TEN metres on the automated target retrieval system, free standing isosceles grip............WOW...... look at that six shot group, fantastic.

I am seriously impressed and very happy with this new toy. Made in way back in 1852 and it would still do the business if called on to do so TODAY {?|

There was more flashback than normal out of what I have now found are the original nipples. Five went bang first time but I had to re-cap the sixth.

Oh yeah, the arbour serial number matches as does the original wedge that I have re-installed after cleaning her today.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hellgate on March 07, 2019, 11:32:25 AM
Perfect windage!! On several originals that I have seen at gun shows they had installed a dovetailed front sight (as I have done on some of my reproductions).
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 07, 2019, 11:47:43 AM
Yes perfect windage indeed.

The point of aim was middle of the black and it shoots high, just like it should.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Omnivore on March 07, 2019, 12:36:53 PM
Very nice!  Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 07, 2019, 02:41:52 PM
Omni,

You asked me for a range report........................Well here it is albeit a very brief six shots only !

I did it today.

TEN metres on the automated target retrieval system, free standing isosceles grip............WOW...... look at that six shot group, fantastic.

I am seriously impressed and very happy with this new toy. Made in way back in 1852 and it would still do the business if called on to do so TODAY {?|

There was more flashback than normal out of what I have now found are the original nipples. Five went bang first time but I had to re-cap the sixth.

Oh yeah, the arbour serial number matches as does the original wedge that I have re-installed after cleaning her today.

There should be a partial number on the cylinder.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: G Dog on March 07, 2019, 09:55:35 PM
Almost 170 years old and still kickin ass.  Col. Colt put out a quality product.

No man doesn't value a Navy six, sir.

Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 08, 2019, 01:53:13 AM
Omni,

You asked me for a range report........................Well here it is albeit a very brief six shots only !

I did it today.

TEN metres on the automated target retrieval system, free standing isosceles grip............WOW...... look at that six shot group, fantastic.

I am seriously impressed and very happy with this new toy. Made in way back in 1852 and it would still do the business if called on to do so TODAY {?|

There was more flashback than normal out of what I have now found are the original nipples. Five went bang first time but I had to re-cap the sixth.

Oh yeah, the arbour serial number matches as does the original wedge that I have re-installed after cleaning her today.

There should be a partial number on the cylinder.

There is, the last three digits on the arbour, the cylinder and the wedge.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 08, 2019, 01:56:32 AM
Almost 170 years old and still kickin ass.  Col. Colt put out a quality product.

No man doesn't value a Navy six, sir.

Yep nearly 170 years old and she can still take care of business.

These guns certainly are a testimony to the quality that Col Colt produced, no doubt about it.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on March 09, 2019, 08:08:37 PM
Very cool gun and great target. Just a rough guess but I think in the US it might go from $1200 - 1500 but that's a very rough guess. I am not well versed, I'm just going by what I seen people say on the Colt Forum about similar guns. Seems like they go for more on the other side of the Atlantic. Serious collectors would downgrade it because it has been cleaned and buffed heavily. Matching numbers is good and someone looking for a shooter might value it more because it definitely shoots good.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 10, 2019, 04:09:13 AM
Yes it sure does shoot well, especially considering I have never fired an original Colt before and the light conditions on that indoor range are very poor to say the least.

American prices for any type of firearm are far less than we pay in Europe. We really get our pants taken down and our legs slapped for anything firearm related in Europe. Our favourite Italian replicas are far cheaper in the U.S than in Europe where they come from !

As an example I bought a brand new Mossberg Maverick 12g. It cost me FIVE HUNDRED Euro....................561 U.S Dollars !
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 20, 2019, 01:06:34 PM
Well gentlemen I have been firing off emails with very high quality photos to various dealers in Europe. What a bunch of tight wads they are.

One of them offered me 400 Pounds Sterling for my Colt. He has one advertised on his website. His photos are excellent. The frame and cylinder are pitted to hell. The grips are damaged, it's not as good as mine. He is asking 2000 Pounds for it !...............Cheeky b*stard !

So screw them.............. For the time being I think I'll just keep it and shoot it occasionally.

I know this question must have been asked before but who sells quality reproduction parts for these guns ?

My original wedge is worn and allows some fore and aft movement. The replica wedge was tig welded along one edge and fits nice and tight. I am thinking trigger parts and springs, basically re-condition it to shoot, whilst keeping the original parts to one side.

Funny thing is here's me calling them tight wads, I only paid THREE HUNDRED Euros for it  {?|
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 20, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
Try Lodgewood for parts. http://www.lodgewood.com/ 300 Euros was highway robbery but so is 2000 pounds by at least twice what one would go for here.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 20, 2019, 03:38:54 PM
" Highway robbery"...................I am a retired Police Officer sir, I could almost be offended at such a scurrilous allegation.............Just kidding !

Nope, the guy just wanted rid of it. I gave him his asking price................. Aint no teefs around here.

How lucky was I ?

Thanks Hawg, I'll have a look.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 21, 2019, 05:16:04 AM
A dealer in Belgium on an auction site is asking 950€ this this crock of CRAP.......

https://subastas.catawiki.es/kavels/25058055-estados-unidos-de-america-colt-model-1860-cavalry-percusion-revolver-44 (https://subastas.catawiki.es/kavels/25058055-estados-unidos-de-america-colt-model-1860-cavalry-percusion-revolver-44)


He's gotta be kidding ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Mad Dog Stafford on March 21, 2019, 06:51:57 AM
How much is 950 in USA?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 21, 2019, 08:58:30 AM
How much is 950 in USA?

1080 USD .
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Mad Dog Stafford on March 21, 2019, 10:18:08 AM
$1080?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 21, 2019, 03:29:29 PM
A dealer in Belgium on an auction site is asking 950€ this this crock of CRAP.......

https://subastas.catawiki.es/kavels/25058055-estados-unidos-de-america-colt-model-1860-cavalry-percusion-revolver-44 (https://subastas.catawiki.es/kavels/25058055-estados-unidos-de-america-colt-model-1860-cavalry-percusion-revolver-44)


He's gotta be kidding ?

Maybe in Belgium but since it's a war date it would bring that here. Colt's bring more than Remingtons here anyway.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 25, 2019, 06:29:07 AM
OK gents, next question.

I have found a dealer in England who sells reproduction parts for original Colts. He does all of the screws etc. I am thinking of replacing all of the screws with new ones and keeping the originals and any other internal parts replaced to one side.

He wants SIX Pounds Sterling for each screw that's 84 Pounds. I can get a full set of blued UBERTI screws for 18 Pounds.

Does anybody know if the Uberti screws fit my original ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on March 25, 2019, 10:58:53 AM
OK gents, next question.

I have found a dealer in England who sells reproduction parts for original Colts. He does all of the screws etc. I am thinking of replacing all of the screws with new ones and keeping the originals and any other internal parts replaced to one side.

He wants SIX Pounds Sterling for each screw that's 84 Pounds. I can get a full set of blued UBERTI screws for 18 Pounds.

Does anybody know if the Uberti screws fit my original ?

I'm pretty sure Uberti threads are going to be metric.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hellgate on March 25, 2019, 11:25:35 AM
Check for parts that fit the Colt 2nd Gen. Should match the originals unless the threads are metric to prevent fraud.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on March 25, 2019, 01:32:19 PM
Metric............................I suspected that.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 05, 2019, 04:11:23 AM
I was watching a video by Cap and Ball the Hungarian gun dealer on YouTube. He was shooting and Original Colt Navy versus an Uberti repro. At around the three forty mark he puts the original cylinder into the Uberti and it certainly appears to function perfectly. So this has got me thinking.

I have decided to keep this old Colt as a shooter as the dealers all appear to of the opinion that it has no collector value and they want it for free !

I am intending to try replacing the nipples in the cylinder as they appear to need it. However if I can't remove them ( I don't want to do any damage ) I was wondering if a repro cylinder would fit ?

Dixie gun works has them for sale and they state that they DO fit the original Colt https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/1489/category/395/category_chain/392,393,394,395/product_name/CY0605+Cylinder+for+the+Uberti+Colt+1851+Navy+or+Original+.36+Navy+Revolver (https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/1489/category/395/category_chain/392,393,394,395/product_name/CY0605+Cylinder+for+the+Uberti+Colt+1851+Navy+or+Original+.36+Navy+Revolver)

Has anybody tried this with an Uberti cylinder in an original with any success ? ............................Thoughts and observations please gents.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Len on April 05, 2019, 12:48:57 PM
n-evil
don't know about Pietta cylinders in originals, but noticed you couldn't get the original nipples out. Yes, they could be a PITA, but it is doable. You just need a very tight fitting nipple wrench (and it should be so tight that you have to tap it onto the nipple). Then you need  two perfect fitting brass rods going into two of the juxtaposed cambers of the cylinder and put the rods up in a good vise. The cylinder thus rigidly fixed, you'll have to heat the area around the nipple, say to around 400*C
and tap the wrench with a small hammer (just trying to turn the handle won't help, one needs to get shock waves into the threads).

Then of course there's the bulldozer method. Drill the bastards out. Re-thread the holes to metric. This will naturally kill the antique value, but as this piece of iron isn't fetching that much dough anyhow (=rhyme) it wouldn't matter all that much.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on April 05, 2019, 03:59:15 PM
I do know a Pietta cylinder won't work.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 06, 2019, 03:18:49 AM
No a PIETTA cylinder will NOT work. The one on the cap and ball channel is an UBERTI revolver and he drops the Original cylinder into the Uberti replica and it works. I'm wondering if the reverse is true with an UBERTI cylinder in my original ?

Len, yeah I have not tried removing the original nipples yet. I have a Ted Cash ratchet nipple wrench on route from the U.S. I'm not expecting it for a couple of weeks. So in the meantime I have left the cylinder soaking in 3 in 1 penetrating oil.

I'm not going to force anything as I don't want to do any damage to the original cylinder. So IF I can't get them out I'll buy an UBERTI cylinder and try it.

From the customer comments on Dixie Gunworks it appears they are compatible albeit with some fitting. So for 99€ I'll try one rather than risk damaging the Colt cylinder.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on April 06, 2019, 05:18:13 AM
I have left the cylinder soaking in 3 in 1 penetrating oil.

I would use Kroil instead.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 06, 2019, 07:18:53 AM
Yeah, but I don't think Kroil is available in Europe ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on April 06, 2019, 07:57:54 AM
Then try a 50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on April 06, 2019, 10:23:05 AM
Lodgewood sells replacement parts for the original Colt 1851 Navy, including nipples and cylinders. The nipples come in two types, one for #9 caps and one for #11 caps. The cylinders are plain with no engraving.

http://www.lodgewood.com/Colt-1851-Navy_c_58.html
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 06, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
Thanks for that, yeah Lodgewood I have seen them the perfect solution for me but they won't ship to Spain.  Numrich in NY has ORIGINAL cylinders as well but neither will they  ^y%
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: drobs on April 07, 2019, 12:20:36 AM
Thanks for that, yeah Lodgewood I have seen them the perfect solution for me but they won't ship to Spain.  Numrich in NY has ORIGINAL cylinders as well but neither will they  ^y%

I bet one of our fine members here would ship it to you.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 07, 2019, 04:34:33 AM
Drobs, I have no doubt that some fine gentleman one of our contributors would oblige me ? Question is dare I risk Spanish customs ?

Here's the video, have a look. At 3.36 he does the swap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmKrmwrum3Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmKrmwrum3Q)

Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Len on April 07, 2019, 10:38:22 AM
...
I bet one of our fine members here would ship it to you.
You're darn right. One of our eminent members shipped me an original 1858 Remi cylinder, via some mysterious roads. So, it can be achieved. "Never lose hope, my son"
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 07, 2019, 10:56:29 AM
Len

The problem I have is that these are controlled parts in Spain even though they are "antiques"...............They have to go on my licence and I have no idea what sort of bureaucratic import papers are involved to import from America legally ?

However not so in nanny state England. These 19th century revolvers AND their parts are NOT subject to licencing in England. They have the same status as owning a screwdriver !

But they are here in Spain...............Here I can have an AR15 and Glocks, but not in the U.K...........Go figure  ???

Numrich parts corporation in NY has used ORIGINAL Colt Navy cylinders minus the nipples. Now if I can't get the nipples out of my cylinder some kind soul here could post me one to England where it isn't a controlled part.................Problem solved ????

I'm going to hang on until the Ted Cash ratchet nipple wrench arrives. In the meantime I'm going to leave my Colt cylinder soaking in 3 in 1 penetrating oil and hopefully ?????

I will be able to unscrew the nipples successfully ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Len on April 07, 2019, 11:56:39 AM
NE
soaking the stuff rarely ever works. You'll have to go for chock therapy under heat.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: scrubby on April 08, 2019, 06:53:19 AM
No local gunshop with a resident gunsmith, huh? I just changed out the nipples on my Remington. The 'smith reported that after a wee-longk soak on Kroil and moderate heat, they weren't budging. So he machined them off, flush to the cylinder, and used an E-Z Out. All 6 removed thusly, and original factory threads (10-28?) were chased and new Track of the Wolf parts installed. My Fiocchi caps now fit properly. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 08, 2019, 11:01:50 AM
There are gunsmiths and a machine shop close by. I'm just too much of a skinflint to pay them  )L$

So last night I was on the vino tinto Rioja and bit the bullet and ordered an Uberti cylinder.......................Watch this space.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on April 10, 2019, 11:58:37 AM
necessaryevil, I think those cylinders from Numrich are original 2nd Generation, not original 1st Gens. At least the ones I see there said "F frame" which I think would refer to the "F-Series" Colt 2nd Gen.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on April 10, 2019, 02:23:47 PM
necessaryevil, I think those cylinders from Numrich are original 2nd Generation, not original 1st Gens. At least the ones I see there said "F frame" which I think would refer to the "F-Series" Colt 2nd Gen.

If Uberti works so should they to my way of thinking since Uberti made them.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 10, 2019, 03:50:36 PM
The Uberti cylinder is being delivered tomorrow, so I'll get to find out for sure.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 11, 2019, 06:09:16 AM
The Uberti cylinder arrived this morning.

GOOD NEWS, it appears to be very nearly a DROP IN fit ?

With the original wedge it functions perfectly, with no lube,  but the original wedge is worn so barrel to frame is sloppy. Same with no wedge but the frame and barrel pushed together.

It came fitted with a replica wedge that has been tigged up and filed to be a tight fit with the original cylinder. With this wedge tapped home the new Uberti cylinder binds.

So it looks like I need to adjust the replica wedge to fit the new cylinder ?

Length the Uberti 1.836".................Original 1.833"

Width Uberti 1.533" ........................Original 1.528"

Chamber Uberti 0.366"...................Original 0.371

Arbour bore Uberti .0430" ..............Original 0.429"

Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Hawg on April 11, 2019, 12:52:20 PM
The Uberti cylinder must be a tad longer than the original. I think you'd be better off facing the cylinder to fit.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 11, 2019, 01:12:15 PM
Well, I took out Mr Dremel and trimmed that replica wedge down poco a poco.

Aaaaaand everything is functioning perfectly. At half cock the cylinder spins like a roulette wheel. At full cock the indexing is perfect.

The lockup with the trigger pulled and the hammer dropped is rock solid. A resounding success subject to test firing.

I just need to collect my new nipple key and remove the Uberti nipples and put some anti-seize copper compound on the threads before test firing it  (T^ 

Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on April 11, 2019, 05:59:24 PM
Awesome! Are you going to remove the bluing from the Uberti cylinder? Evapo-rust will easily remove bluing but I'm not sure they sell it where you are.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on April 12, 2019, 12:42:44 AM
I haven't decided on that yet, I'm going to test fire it first.

Plain old vinegar will take the bluing off no problem. I'm going to load her up with 15 grains of Santa Barbara black powder topped off with a filler and a .375" Hornady round ball........................Vamos a ver !
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 13, 2019, 09:58:53 AM
Had a gunsmithing day today in a friends workshop. The original cylinder has been soaking in 3 in 1 penetrating oil since I got the gun.
My Ted Cash ratchet nipple key arrived from America. First job I put the cylinder in the vice with the soft jaws and the nipples unscrewed all the way out, a little bit tighter than normal but all six are out  {?|.

Next job was to put the Uberti cylinder in the lathe and face it off. The length of the Uberti was 1.836".................Original is 1.833" not any more, they are now both the same length !

I had previously filed the replica wedge down to allow the Uberti cylinder to rotate with it's original length but the barrel to frame fit was too sloppy. So I took Hawg's advice and refaced the new cylinder.

So then we Tig welded the front edge of the new replica wedge and filed it down to give a tight fit of the barrel to the frame.

The loading lever was slopping about from side to side very loosely. So today I installed a replica barrel lug and loading lever catch I bought from Peter Dyson in the U.K. These are replica parts for original revolvers............There is still a bit of side to side movement but the lever locks in place very securely and doesn't slop about all loose like before  (T^

So now I need to buy some nipples for the original cylinder.

She needs a range day this week if I can.

 
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 14, 2019, 10:58:39 AM
I had a bit of a sort out of my gun junk today and found various sets of revolver nipples. The ones in the picture screwed in perfectly. I can't remember what make they are, but hey they are in there with a good coating of copper anti seize compound on the threads.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on May 15, 2019, 07:41:39 PM
Glad you got the nipples out, that's always a significant accomplishment. Some of the old repros used the same nipple threads as the original Colt's. When I bought replacement nipples for my Gregorelli & Uberti and my Centaure revolvers they both accepted Track of The Wolf's replacement nipples for original Colt's.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: G Dog on May 15, 2019, 10:10:36 PM
... they are in there with a good coating of copper anti seize compound on the threads.

What is the very best anti seize compound to use for our firearm purposes?

Necessary Evil uses a type that has Copper flakes (that fact alone may answer my question).  Some years ago a variety with Nichol flakes was highly recommended here.  I have been using an inexpensive Aluminum type because it was available at the local HWS.  I started using it on the cones only but now I put a little on gun screws too for prophylaxis and preventive health care.  ::)

For my purposes and at this point a container will probably last the duration but I would like to use the best.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 16, 2019, 03:10:14 AM


Glad you got the nipples out, that's always a significant accomplishment. Some of the old repros used the same nipple threads as the original Colt's. When I bought replacement nipples for my Gregorelli & Uberti and my Centaure revolvers they both accepted Track of The Wolf's replacement nipples for original Colt's.

Yeah, you and me both  (T^ I honestly thought they were well and truly "welded" in there, but hey thanks to Mr 3 in 1 penetrating oil and the QUALITY Ted Cash nipple wrench yep they just unscrewed. I knew it was too good to be true with the replica nipples though. The thread may be correct but the cones are too long. So when they are capped up they foul on the recoil shield. Never mind I'll have to get some Track of the Wolf ?

The new Uberti cylinder works perfectly though. I'm going to the range tomorrow.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 16, 2019, 03:15:18 AM
... they are in there with a good coating of copper anti seize compound on the threads.

What is the very best anti seize compound to use for our firearm purposes?

Necessary Evil uses a type that has Copper flakes (that fact alone may answer my question).  Some years ago a variety with Nichol flakes was highly recommended here.  I have been using an inexpensive Aluminum type because it was available at the local HWS.  I started using it on the cones only but now I put a little on gun screws too for prophylaxis and preventive health care.  ::)


For my purposes and at this point a container will probably last the duration but I would like to use the best.

It's automotive product that comes in a tube, a bit like a toothpaste tube ? I have had it for years, it keeps ok and really does do the job. First thing I do with all my BP revolvers is remove the nipples, coat the threads with copper slip and screw them back in. I have NEVER had a problem with stuck nipples on any gun I have bought new.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Omnivore on May 16, 2019, 01:41:40 PM
Quote
I had previously filed the replica wedge down to allow the Uberti cylinder to rotate with it's original length but the barrel to frame fit was too sloppy. So I took Hawg's advice and refaced the new cylinder.

Yes; it is the position at which the barrel comes hard against the front end of the arbor which determines the fit.  The wedge merely secures that fit.  The order of operations then would be to establish the fit (barrel-to-cylinder gap) and then see to adjusting the wedge if necessary.

It took me years to understand this because so many were explaining it incorrectly and I let them influence me against my better judgement.  The Pettifogger (sp?) articles finally made it crystal clear.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: sourdough on May 16, 2019, 05:18:06 PM
Yes; it is the position at which the barrel comes hard against the front end of the arbor which determines the fit.  The wedge merely secures that fit.  The order of operations then would be to establish the fit (barrel-to-cylinder gap) and then see to adjusting the wedge if necessary.

If the arbor bottoms out into the barrel lug arbor recess with the proper barrel/cylinder gap, the wedge has nothing to do with the barrel-to-cylinder gap. The sole purpose of the wedge is to secure the barrel to the arbor/frame. If one is using it to adjust the B/C gap then the arbor to arbor lug recess is not correct. The original Colt manual says to securely fit the wedge (as in pounding it in) when reassembling the gun.

Anyone using a wedge to adjust the B/C gap is looking to shoot the gun loose sooner or later.

Jim
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 18, 2019, 11:24:08 AM
Yesterday, Friday I took my Colt / Uberti Navy hybrid and my Uberti .44 Remington to the range. Both targets below fired two handed grip, free standing at TEN metres.

The Colt was loaded with 17 grains BY WEIGHT of Santa Barbara BP with semolina filler and a .375" dia Hornady round ball. Remington No 10 caps. I sprayed the end of the loaded chambers with olive oil which was very messy.

The Uberti 28 grains by volume same powder, semolina, .454" home cast round ball and olive oil. Even more messy. Wiped the grips down with kitchen roll and let rip with 'em.

Accuracy wise......... nothing to choose between them. That .36 Navy very pleasant to shoot, so much so I am thinking of buying an brand new UBERTI Colt Navy replica ?
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: LonesomePigeon on May 18, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
Nice targets. You can't go wrong with a new Uberti 1851 Navy. Mine is one of my favorite cap n' ballers.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 19, 2019, 03:11:34 AM
Nice targets. You can't go wrong with a new Uberti 1851 Navy. Mine is one of my favorite cap n' ballers.

Yes this 167 year old girl shoots superbly, feels great in my hand and points beautifully. I am seriously thinking about a brand new Uberti replica of her......................Seriously .

https://www.armeriatrelles.com/tienda/es/revolveres/150-colt-1851-navy-ott.html (https://www.armeriatrelles.com/tienda/es/revolveres/150-colt-1851-navy-ott.html)
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: Dellbert on May 20, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
Good shooting there. Thanks for posting necessaryevil.
Title: Re: Colt Navy .36 ORIGINAL
Post by: necessaryevil on May 20, 2019, 02:21:41 PM
Good shooting there. Thanks for posting necessaryevil.

 (T^