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At The Range / Re: 2nd trip to the range
« Last post by drobs on Today at 03:26:06 AM »
I envision at least three. The 1858 I have. A walker, and the 1860 colt.  Thing is, I feel I need /deserve / just want an 1858 with a conversion kit as well. Of course an 1858 goes well with a Schofield and a SAA.

Addiction is not pretty, folks.  (?^ )L$ ->i

There's a really good deal on the Walker via gunbroker right now.

Figure these normal sell for $370 at Midway or $450 at Cabela's. 
I'd buy one these if I wasn't on vacation at the moment.
Well, that is a big question.

For starters, are you into casting your own?  If so, then the sky is the limit, but there are constraints, and those constraints will depend on what particular "1858 Remington" you're discussing.

Assuming we're talking about the percussion system, as opposed to a conversion gun or a conversion cylinder, then the constraints are greater and more specific.

Any conical bullet used in a percussion revolver should be either "heeled" (meaning that it has a smaller diameter at the base so it will slip easily into the chamber some distance before it needs to be forced into the chamber by the loading lever and rammer) or it should be tapered (same reason and purpose as the "heel" base).  That tapered or heeled base requirement rules out ANY bullet made for the 45 Colt or for any other modern metal cartridge (heeled base bullets made for 44 Long Colt, 44 Remington and similar cartridges being the only exceptions). I've tried non-heeled bullets, and although it can be done with a lot of wrestling and fussing, it is NOT WORTH IT.  A flat base, or even a bevel base, bullet designed for metal cartridges simply is NOT a proper choice for the unique requirements of a percussion revolver.

The next constraint is the gun itself.  If it's a reproduction, a Pietta will likely be more limited in what sort of bullet will fit under the loading rammer.  We're talking about the "loading window" and its ability to accommodate certain bullet lengths and profiles.  My Piettas did NOT accept, for example, the Lee 450-200-1R bullet, which is a tapered design, specifically for percussion revolvers.  Other people have said that their Pietta Remington 44s would take that Lee bullet without modification, but I had to modify the loading windows of my Piettas before they would easily accept the Lee bulllet.

I bring up the Lee 450-200-1R because it is a fairly easy-to-load bullet as far as conicals go.  What I mean by "easy-to-load" is that its tapered base fits some distance into the chamber without forcing it, and its rather elongated nose shape means that there is little chance of the bullet interfering with the loading window in the gun's frame.  A wide flat point bullet is more likely to inferfere with the gun's loading window, because it wider farther up away from the cylinder face and therefore needs a bigger, wider loading window.

The Accurate Molds 45-190S has a fairly long heel, and it rounds off at the nose rather sharply, and so it would be a good candidate for the Pietta Remingtons.  One of the members of this forum casts and sells the 45-190S here;,11760.0.html

The Uberti Remingtons have a loading window more like the 1860s original guns, and will take most reasonably-shaped conical bullets pretty well.

Ideally, you should be able to slip a bullet, easily, into a chamber along-side the gun's frame and then rotate it under the loading rammer without any part of the frame interfering with the bullet.  I have had to modify my two Piettas before that would happen, even for the Lee bullet I mentioned above.

I have some other bullet molds from Accurate Molds, which have wide flat points, and they required a bit more opening up of the guns' loading windows, using a Dremel tool and a lot of care, and I am glad I did it.  The two designs I like, in addition to the Lee 450-200-1R and the Accurate Molds 45-190S are the Accurate Molds 45-200S and the Accurate Molds 45-225L, the latter of which is my own design;

Size?  MEASURE YOUR CHAMBERS.  You want a bullet that has a major diameter about one to two thousandths larger than your chamber diameter, with a heel that's at least a tenth of an inch long (in my opinion) and about four thousandths under the chamber diameter (four to six thousandths under chamber diameter if you plan on ever using the bullet in a paper cartridge - the thickness of the paper must be accommodated).  The widest portion of a tapered base band (as opposed to a distinct heel base) should be of similar dimension relative to your chamber diameter.

For the standard Piettas I like a bullet of about .448" or .449" major diameter, with a heel or tapered base band of about .440" to .444".  For the Ubertis I own, I want a major diameter of about .450" to .451".  So a mold that works for both guns will have a heel for the Piettas and a major diameter of .451 or greater, and then I lube-size them separately for each brand of gun.  MEASURE YOUR CHAMBERS though-- I recently got an Uberti Colt that has chambers closer to .452" and so now I must inventory three sizes of bullet in 44 caliber to have the ideal, easy-to-load bullet for each gun.  That's not a problem, because I've ordered my molds to drop bullets in the .453" or .454" range so I can size them down accordingly.

That all sounds like a lot to digest.  However, it is hard to go wrong with the Lee 450-200-1R and use it as-cast.  If you already have a bullet sizer, size as stated above.  There's no reason why a conical bullet should shave lead upon seating-- That's only for round ball.

If you would like to try a few bullets, several of us on this forum are capable of supplying you with samples, and help you get set up so as you can get good results using conicals.  I'd need to know the make of your gun(s) and the chamber diameter(s).  I think it's important have your bullets sized for your chambers because it makes for a much easier time loading them at the shooting range or in the field.

Bullet major diameter
Nose shape and nose length
Overall Length
Heel or tapered base band length
Heel or tapered base band diameter

All these things affect ease of loading and thus your enjoyment of using a conical bullet.

Stay in the 180 to 225 grain weight range and the rather large differences in rifling twist will not matter.  Even the long twist Pietta rifling will handle larger (heavier) bullets than that, but you may get into other issues with those and so it would be better, in my opinion, to stick with that weight range at first.

The 220 grain Kaido "Universal" bullet is also another one that will work without a lot of modification to most Remington 44s, but having a lube-sizer, or having them pre-sized, or ordering a mold that drops to the right size for your gun, I believe is quite important.

Millions of "consumable envelope" cartridges, usually paper, were used by the North in the American Civil War, and they all came with conical bullets.  Bullet weights ran from a bit over 200 grains up to about 255 grains for the most part.

There's a bit more to it all, but not knowing your gun and your interest in casting or in modifying a gun, I can't really say much more.  There is a large amount of discussion on these points on this forum over the last several years, and so some searching will turn up all I've said and much more.

But it's really not complicated.  The bullet must fit the gun and the gun must fit the bullet.

Just do NOT start with bullets made for the 45 Colt because they're the wrong design and you'll get frustrated with them.
Projectiles / What conical bullets does the 1858 seem to favor most?
« Last post by Frankenstein on July 15, 2018, 08:18:24 PM »

grain weight?

vendor?  source?

1858 Remington Revolvers / Re: Finally! A decent load for Uberti .36 Navy...
« Last post by Dellbert on July 15, 2018, 07:50:59 PM »
good shooting....i'd stick with that load !

+1 I'd stick with that load to. I been doing pretty good with 20 gr T7 FFF loads in my Colt 51 Navy. It's taking me a while to get use to that powder. Been using it in one of my ROAs with 30 gr loads. Both guns are being loaded with rd ball with lubed wads between powder and ball.
Welcome Wagon / Re: Hello all! New pietta owner from Texas
« Last post by Frankenstein on July 15, 2018, 07:25:42 PM »
The hazmat shipping fee is >10$ usually.... so yeah it pays to order more.  I need to make sure I have safe storage I'm sure.
Welcome Wagon / Re: Hello all! New pietta owner from Texas
« Last post by rowdyjoe on July 15, 2018, 06:54:45 PM »
I'm in Arlington and belong to the Arlington Sportsman's Club.  Very nice facilities and well managed. 

I was in the same boat as you last year when I first started with muzzle loaders and cap & ball.  I searched high and low and haven't found any retail place to buy real BP.  I don't really care for the substitutes.  I started using Goex many years ago for BP cartridge in my 45-70 Rolling Block. I had good luck with it so, I wanted to use it again in my muzzle-stuffer and cap & ball. 

There's one place I've found on-line that sells real BP ( Graf & Sons.  However, the shipper (FedEx, UPS, ??) gets a haz. mat. fee of about $10 per shipment.  So, if you buy one pound or 20lbs, the fee is $10.  It pays to order more than one. :)  I seem to remember that primers/caps are the same way but, not sure on those. 

Wish I could be of more help but, if you keep an eye on Cabela's, et al,  they will restock their supplies periodically and if you can find out which day, you can be there to grab some before it's gone. 

Right now, I'm searching for .45 cal. and .50 cal. cleaning patches.  I make my own shooting patches for the rifle but, buy my cleaning patches (so far). 

I'll try keep you posted if I find any local places for supplies. 

This hobby is addictive.  Good luck. 

At The Range / Re: 2nd trip to the range
« Last post by Cross Plains Drifter on July 15, 2018, 06:34:40 PM »
that's good shooting.......

welcome to 12 steps anonamus !!
Welcome Wagon / Re: newbie!
« Last post by Miguel Loco on July 15, 2018, 06:09:02 PM »
Welcome from AZ.
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