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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on Today at 11:08:53 AM »


D-day. As i checked the last couple of points on the agenda out it turned out that the nipples were worn to the point that the gun wouldn´t have fired,so i took to turning 1mm thick shims once again.
Material is to tough to work as a seal tho and i really should try and find some regular aluminium washers instead. That 7075T651 is one of the tougher common aluminiums around.

Anyways.
That done and installed i tried to shoot a video for you showing the various workings of the Freeman,but sorry to say that turned to mush due to the heater at the shop overpowering my own voice.
Part of the clip,last part,is of me firing the piece and i´ll see if i can´t cut that out of the entity of the video and post.

As that turned to mush though i recorded another video here at home of the the chromed Remmy and Freeman both,which is uploading right now.
If nothing else it shows how to yank the cylinder out of there.
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by G Dog on January 19, 2018, 09:01:15 PM »
No offense,but on that count your are dead wrong. All of you.

We are all wrong about what, exactly? 

At mid-19th Century the American System of Manufacture (read standardization and interchangeable parts) was in its infancy.  Those were Pre-CNC days with some very rough edges.   As with “Britannia Rule the Waves” that notion of the standardization of interchangeable parts was more an invocation and less a statement of fact.  As we know, even today, some of the modern parts to these guns require ‘fitting’.


Tactics simply HAD to change seing how guns and what not evolved,or..you would get defeated. Logical huh..

Industrial revolution...if anyone missed out.

.You guys tell me i´m wrong.
1.   Eventually, after a long while and sure, logical.  But it still didn’t happen (e.g. WW I).  The need and requirement of a change of tactics was far upstream of the solution.  Developments lagged.  By analogy, as to extra cylinders, that the old timers could have and probably should have used them is not an argument for the fact that they did.

2.   Most of us here have heard of that.

3.   You’re not wrong, strictly speaking,  but have not entirely carried your case, either. 


Great pistol and project there; following along with much interest.  Thanks for the pics, too.

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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on January 19, 2018, 08:30:36 PM »
Hm.
I´ll just put that to rest with,again,recapitulating...

Very little is new under the sun. A solid truth that stands. Even the rigors of time i´d say.

Off for bed. Been a hectic b-day and i hope that next post of mine in this thread will be the link for a video of me firing that Freeman.

... ;)
(`N no..i don´t carry enough cylinders for a Freeman to be able to do a swift reload! *LOL*)
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Captainkirk on January 19, 2018, 08:23:37 PM »
(nods in agreement)...
Reloading. Ah, yes. Funny how tools nearly as old as the percussion revolvers that proceeded them can and will produce a loaded round every bit as good and precise as my RCBS press can do. Any you can carry it about in your back pocket. Try doing that with a Rock Chucker.
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on January 19, 2018, 08:17:40 PM »
@ Captain.
I´ll tell you what. I graduated as an engineer in my 20s,like most i guess.
It took up until now for me to "discover" how advanced the likes of me were back in the 1840s and 1850´s. It´s to the point where i´ve really become sort of flabbergasted TBH. In plain english it has come to impress the living s*it out of me.

Don´t get me wrong. The innards of Colts n Remmys is old news to me,however..the innards of the DA Starr is not and see..that´s,from an engineering standpoint at the time,a rather intricate design and execution of how the parts were made. Involved even.

That insight has,as an engineer (damn i hate that word!),made me backtrack and take a good look at the Remington for starters and the others to follow and reevaluate them seing the tech,machinery and what not available at the time.
It has even made mye look my old history books up.
One thing´s for certain. Very little is new under the sun. Even so reloading my dear Captain...even so the ability of a reload..
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Captainkirk on January 19, 2018, 08:09:29 PM »
OK, then we are all in agreement, I think. {L*
While it WAS possible using 19th century machining and tools, nobody thought to do it.  :9) Like so many other things throughout history.

Chinese man: "So, what do we DO with this...'gunpowder'?"
Other Chinese man: "Why, blow up rockets in the sky"
Duh.
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on January 19, 2018, 08:03:25 PM »
J, your problem is this;
You are trying to create a theorem based on your hypothesis.
We all agree that mix-n-match spec'd  parts COULD HAVE been created without the advent of CNC.
We all agree that "Pale Rider" technology existed; the ability to swap loaded cylinders strapped to your belt like speed loaders, although miraculously, no pouches or lone cylinders have turned up in museums, on battlefields, nor are there any accounts either verbal or written that describe the use of said cylinders. And that goes for Colt, Starr,  G&G, S&G, Manhattan, Freeman, Tucker & Sherrard, LeMat, Root, and even Rogers & Spencer (which saw no wartime use) in addition to Remington.
We all agree that a Remmy cylinder can be swapped on a gun by a man standing (NOT on horseback) in under 5 seconds (I've done it)
But what we DON'T agree on, apparently, is...it didn't happen, other than the possible one-off.  Not only is there no proof, but there is also no evidence to even suggest such a possibility.
So, while the opportunity existed, the practice never came to fruition. You can bank on that.

Quote from above..

-"You bring up a plethora of valid points that i will not argue as i´m not a historian. I´m just a mere honest rocket scientist (no,no bullshit) that happens to know a thing or two of engineering history. That´s it,so it might STILL stand to reason-very much so-that you´re on the money. To me it even sounds reasonable.
That it´d be so cause of lack of engineering capacity though would be a downright fallacy. Also called bullshit. I can absolutely attest to that much."-

Any clearer?  :)
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on January 19, 2018, 08:01:53 PM »
*sighs*...
...and i recapitulate..
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Bishop Creek on January 19, 2018, 08:00:43 PM »
J, your problem is this;
You are trying to create a theorem based on your hypothesis.
We all agree that mix-n-match spec'd  parts COULD HAVE been created without the advent of CNC.
We all agree that "Pale Rider" technology existed; the ability to swap loaded cylinders strapped to your belt like speed loaders, although miraculously, no pouches or lone cylinders have turned up in museums, on battlefields, nor are there any accounts either verbal or written that describe the use of said cylinders. And that goes for Colt, Starr,  G&G, S&G, Manhattan, Freeman, Tucker & Sherrard, LeMat, Root, and even Rogers & Spencer (which saw no wartime use) in addition to Remington.
We all agree that a Remmy cylinder can be swapped on a gun by a man standing (NOT on horseback) in under 5 seconds (I've done it)
But what we DON'T agree on, apparently, is...it didn't happen, other than the possible one-off.  Not only is there no proof, but there is also no evidence to even suggest such a possibility.
So, while the opportunity existed, the practice never came to fruition. You can bank on that.

You are correct Captainkrk, except for the Clint Eastwood movie, there is absolutely no evidence of cylinder swapping in the 19th Century. An extensive search of primary written material from that time period shows no evidence.

In fact, I never heard of it until that movie was released.
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Rogers & Spencer / Re: Freeman Army 44 cal / IT FINALLY ARRIVED!
« Last post by Racing on January 19, 2018, 07:59:43 PM »
No no no no dear Captain!!
No!
What i´m trying to put forth is the design criteria and the technology. Read above please,i clearly state that i´m no historian and that i find it plausible that extra cylinders were NOT carried.
If they were or not is besides the point for what i´m putting forth. What i´m saying is that the DESIGN criteria of the Remington most likely had that as part of it and that the technology was certainly there.

Hence the original sentence put forth. That swapping cylinders of a Remmy is faster then doing so on a Freeman.
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