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Author Topic: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!  (Read 364 times)

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Offline cap and baller

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Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« on: March 11, 2017, 01:38:08 AM »
Hello everyone, I went out today and was able to gain a bit of data on the 200 Lee's that Omnivore sent me.  I shot 12 shots, 6 from each 1858 and used 23 grains of Goex 3F in the Buffalo with a card and a lube cookie.  I would ram in the card and cookie then press the bullets in by hand before I could get the ramrod ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0qcL_9XCcQ- 2 shots 25 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_tTImkDD4E- 1 shot 25 yards
First picture is the group with the unmarked shot as the single shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZY_8kbU2E4- 2 shots 10 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM_EfAzOtlI&feature=youtu.be-1 shot 5 yards
2nd pic shows the above group while the 3rd picture are two groups using .451 roundball. 

Two shots at the 25 yards with round balls are nearly in the same spot which is nice.  But my whole group is about 3-7 inches too high so I will need to adjust the sights   ???.  I took 5 shoots as I was low on powder and no video as we lost power.  Based on this I'd say the roundballs in my hands can prove to be a much more deadly pattern!  I would not count out the conical rounds for those of us who want to get up close for the most secure shot.

Uberti 1858/1866 Carbine- 30 grains of 3F Goex plus card and lube cookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IGst7dRQoI- 2 shots 10 yards with rifle.
4th picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiXOuoRebOk- 2 shots at 20 yards with rifle.
5th picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiXOuoRebOk- 2 shots at 50 yards with rifle!
I got a double miss  :-[.  I did not shoot any of the roundball today to conserve what I have however, I am very certain I can place the roundball in that POA with the carbine even at 50 if I can hit the steel targets at 50.  Close shots will not miss, which is good enough I suppose for enough things.  I hear they have 180, 220 and 240 grain conicals lead bullets with Omnivore on his path to crafting something new so who knows which is best for the furthest reach.  At point blankish distance they do just dandy  ])M
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 01:58:54 AM by cap and baller »

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 03:29:36 PM »
Thanks for posting.  I think you'll be able to get better accuracy out of that carbine with the conical bullets.  I'd suggest shooting from a rest, if you want a better picture of the gun's inherent accuracy.  Also, you might try varying the powder charge, using the lube, not using the lube (lube over the bullet instead) etc.

It is common for different loads, especially if the bullet weights are very different (like going from round ball to a heavy conical), to shoot to a different point on impact relative point of aim.  Keep your sight picture and point of aim exactly the same for every shot for every load, and just look at the group sizes.  The goals in picking a load is to find the load which prints the smallest average group size, and then adjust your sights for that load only once you've decide to stick with that load for a while.

Just as an aside here, which might shed some light on the picture; the NRA standard for accuracy testing of a given load is to shoot five separate groups from a rest, of five shots per group.  The published group size is the average of those five, five shot groups.  That's 25 shots recorded, and five separate targets, for each load tested.  If the tester tries out five different loads, that's 125 shots and 25 targets to be labeled, measured, recorded, organized and then published in a coherent form.  Those professional gun writers who do reviews for the NRA; they earn their pay.

I don't know if I've ever done a "proper test" then, by that standard, and I bet no one on this forum has done it either.  Still, it's worth knowing how the pros do it.

As an aside to the aside; the "standard deviations" for velocity often given for each load, only start to become meaningful for a group of twenty or more, so that NRA standard of 25 shots per load also gives us something meaningful for a standard deviation in velocity.  At that small group sample of 25 even, the proper term for SD would be "Sample Standard Deviation".  Groups of thousands, or millions, or hundreds of millions, is where Standard Deviation is often used in statistics.  The "Sample Standard Deviation" applies to subsets, or samples, of the data.

I all that context, I didn't send you very many bullets after all, did I?

Offline cap and baller

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Re: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2017, 09:07:54 AM »
There may have been enough to do a proper test as you described in the beginning but right now its a little low.  Not that I'm complaining they are fun to shoot just gotta experiment a bit as you said.  I will try to find or just make an improvised rest for the next trip and see where things are placed.  I will also try these in the 8" Pietta and see how it does overall.  Just not trying to shoot everything in a day so I can do a bit of blasting next weekend  ;D

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 10:46:51 AM »
Just shoot and shoot more!  (T^
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Offline B. P. Roscoe

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Re: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 09:50:38 AM »
^^^That has always worked for me!
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Offline Dellbert

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Re: Buffalo & Carbine 200 Lee Conical Range Results!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »
I guess the more you use something the better you get with it right? {?|
If it's not broke don't try fixin it.