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Author Topic: 1858 Gunslingers?  (Read 18518 times)

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Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2015, 05:48:00 AM »
still discussing Custer??
I seriously doubt that the Fetterman fight was in his West Point Classes considering he left the Point 5 years previous.
His best friend from W/P was raised 6 miles from where I sit.....the Gallant John Pelham, killed at Kellys Ford in '63
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Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2015, 03:03:01 PM »
Pelham was liked and respected by all who knew him, North and South.

“With a Pelham on each flank I believe I could whip the world."
                                          Stonewall Jackson
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #137 on: December 14, 2015, 09:45:45 PM »
Gentlemen,
            In many ways, the loss of Stonewall Jackson was pivotal fo the South.  For had Lee had Jackson at Gettysburg,  I believe the end would have been very different.  General Ewell stalled at the Round Tops.  Had Jackson been there, his"Foot Cavalry," would have gone around the Round tops and Caught Winfield Scott with his pants around his ankles!  Lee did make a serious tactical error. He believed the Army of Northern Virginia was Invinceable. However he had always had Stonewall there to back his play. Ewell vacillated, and that cost them the Battle of Gettysburgh!  I greatly admired General Lee.  A very fine Gentleman, as well as a skilled Tactician.
            The day of my Fathers Funeral, I returned to the house, and full of misery sat in my Dad's old leather armchair. Beside it was his bookcase, and my eye was caught by a book, that was the official War History of the 56th. London Division. This was the division that my Dad's Regiment, the Queens Westminster Rifles was a part of. I turned to July 1st. 1916. The first day of the Battle of the Somme. The day my Dad was wounded so badly he lost his left leg, and the day his older Brother, who would have become my Uncle Harry, was killed.  As I read of the preparations for the Battle, I was sickened. The Allied High Command used exactly the same tactics at that battle, that General Lee used at Gettysburgh, 53 years previously!  I read that, "At 08.00 hrs, the Queens Westminster Rifles formed up as if on parade, and marched acrosss No-Man's Land!"  How much more Utterly Stupid, can a Commanding General get?
            At Gettysburg, the confederates were facng Cannon fire, and .58 Caliber Rifles. Now a skilled rifleman could get off three shots a minute, which may not sound like much, but think, if you've got 2,000 riflemen?????  That's 10,000 .58 Minie balls coming at you.  But in 1916, the Germans had Maxim and other machineguns, and the very efficient 8mm Mauser bolt action rifles!  Also, during the night, the sappers (British.) had carefully opened up gaps in the British Barbed wire, so that our boys could gain access to No-Man's-Land with ease.  To guide the men, they had laid on the ground bright yellow tape for the British soldiers to follow.  So when the Germans woke that day, the Feldwebel looked out, and probably called out to his men, "Hans, Otto, Tell the Machine gunners to train their guns on where those yellow tapes come out of the British wire. Ve vill slaughter them!" And slaughter them they did!  Military Inteligence is indeed an Oxymoron!!! They had shelled the German wire for seven days and nights!  It was hardly touched. Turned out that 60% of the shells were ineffective!  The internal charges failed to explode!  To quote Clint Estwood, it was a Clusterfuck!  All those lives wasted! Allied and German.  I saw some pictures of the man who should have been my Uncle Harry! A fine looking young man.  Very like my Dad in his army Pics!
I'm sure he'd have been a Great Uncle to me.  For some reason, that afternoon of my Dad's Funeral has stayed with me, and the memories of the utter stupidity of the tactics used.  Didn't anyone in the British Military Acadamies, read any history Books? I can remember taking the Picture of Harry Roper, and asking God in prayer, to look after his soul.  I have sometimes wondered if he is my Guardian Angel?  Who knows!  Well, as I am nearly 80 I should be finding out not too long from now? I know that I have often wished that Lord Kitchener, and his red capped and Gold braided aassociates, burned for at least a Season in Hell!
                                                                                                      Johnnie Roper;Alias:Gunslinger9378.
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Online Bishop Creek

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #138 on: December 14, 2015, 10:09:49 PM »
Touching story Johnny, thanks for sharing. My four times great-grandmother's sister was Stonewall Jackson's aunt.

Offline M9Powell

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #139 on: December 14, 2015, 10:26:56 PM »
Touching story Johnny, thanks for sharing. My four times great-grandmother's sister was Stonewall Jackson's aunt.

 In my job as a NC state transport officer, today I took a young man who violated his parol back to the Stonewall Jackson training school. It's a over a hundred year old "prison" for young men. His offence was larceny of firearms.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 10:31:14 PM by M9Powell »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #140 on: December 15, 2015, 12:06:58 PM »
Getting back to Fetterman, if I may...
An eye-opening video. Every (and I mean EVERY!) account I've read about the Fetterman massacre described their final battlefield as a "box canyon"....I wonder if this was more of the Wounded Knee-type 'cleansing' of history; one to make; 1) the Indians to look like 'butchers' (shooting 'trapped' soldiers in a box canyon), and 2) to make Fetterman out the victim instead of the pompous, big-headed buffoon he was. Much the same as Custer, he was possessed and driven by a blinding ego that wouldn't allow him to accept failure as an option. In both cases, it clearly was.
Like BC, I also read "Wounded Knee" until the pages were falling out and swallowed it whole as a teen. It wasn't until later I began to see the clearly one-sided slant presented. "Wounded Knee" became a #1 bestseller riding on the coattails of the American Indian unrest in the early '70's and I believe actually fueled the fires by getting John Q. Public to sympathize with the plight of the 'red man'.
In reality, it (the Indian wars) was a blot on the pages of history on both sides.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #141 on: December 15, 2015, 01:23:39 PM »
A pretty good account of the Fetterman fight.  http://www.historynet.com/the-fatal-fetterman-fight.htm
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2015, 02:33:17 PM »
A great read, Hawg!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline snake-eyes

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2015, 03:19:22 PM »
A great read, Hawg!
Hawg,
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Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2015, 10:52:58 PM »
That’s a good article, not sentimental, which is how  any proper historical narrative  should read.

Traditionally white Americans did not underestimate the fighting qualities of the Indians.  But after the Civil War a tone of contempt seems to enter into Army thinking when it came to Indian fighting. 

Both Carrington and Fetterman were Easterners of urban background.  Half the command at the fight were green recruits on foot. 

As old pro Jim Bridger, one of Carrington’s  scouts said: "These soldiers don't know anything about fighting Indians".
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #145 on: December 16, 2015, 05:49:06 AM »
Gunslinger....your Father was at the Somme??  i'm a bit awestruck......such brave men/boys....such a tragic waste of life.

yep, Pelham covered Lees " retreat " at Sharpsburg...oops...Antietam to you Yankees for over 4 hours w/only 2 working cannon, and only disengaged when he ran out of powder.

everything here is named after him..........

edit.......this is "The Gallant Pelhams" final resting place, 1/2 mile from my house





« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 04:52:41 PM by Cross Plains Drifter »
Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner.....
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !

Offline B. P. Roscoe

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #146 on: July 01, 2016, 09:11:53 PM »
... One of the lines in one of those books, has always remained engraved in my mind! Wellman wrote: "His treatment of the American Indian, is something that every white man should forever wear around his neck, like a Millstone of Shame!"  That sentence so struck me as pure truth, that even though it is years ago that I read it, it remains indelibly in my brain!
            Most of the "Treaties," the White Men made with various tribes, contained Wording such as, "As Long as the Sun shall Shine, as long as the fivers flow, As long as the Moon shall rise,  and as long as the grass shall grow!"  Which to any person of reasonable intelligence mans, "Forever!  Most, if not ALL of those treaties were broken, BY WHITE MEN, almost before the Ink was Dry!...
                                                                                     Johnnie Roper,Alias:GUnslinger9378.

"White Guilt"?  No thanks, not for me.  I take responsibility for what I have done, but not for what someone else has done, especially just because my skin is white.

Oh, and I never owned any slaves either, so I do not owe any of their descendants a penny or an apology.
Death to any and all who would bring war against my country...
www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/sherman/sherman-to-burn-atlanta.html

Offline G Dog

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #147 on: July 02, 2016, 02:41:50 PM »

"White Guilt"?  No thanks, not for me. 

I'm with you Roscoe.  White guilt has become a real industry on the left.  They say race is a mere "social construct" and does not exist  ::) ... and then proceed to be continually preoccupied with race.   Eff em. 

http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 02:52:33 PM by G Dog »
You are at war now; the liberty of your enemies is not an important concern.

Offline BlackpowderJim

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #148 on: July 04, 2016, 02:03:22 PM »
I believe everyone should follow their conscience. If the liberal left feels guilt because of something done by a Caucasian years and years ago, then they should reach deep into their pockets and give to the cause or causes that will slake their guilt. As for me, I have better things to do with my money, such as fortifying my 2nd Amendment rights with a new purchase that may dissuade these lunatics from forcefully trying to deprive me of that right.

Offline Crawdad

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Re: 1858 Gunslingers?
« Reply #149 on: August 15, 2016, 08:06:45 AM »
Custer was indeed (IMHO) a horse's ass and I grew up thinking he was the cat's pajamas. It wasn't until a couple books in my teen years enlightened me, mainly "Battle of the Little Bighorn" by Mari Sandoz, in which she took Custer to task for the majority of his shenanigans, and virtually every book written since pretty much paints him up as an egotistic fool.

He benefited greatly from technology as his Michigan Brigade and the 8th Illinois were the first Union Cavalry regiments to be outfitted with the Spencer repeater. That rifle saved him and his men in many fights during the War.