Author Topic: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?  (Read 2809 times)

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Offline mr wack

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lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« on: October 12, 2016, 12:59:53 PM »
Hay folks as of now I only shoot rb's in my c&b revolvers but I have the itch to shoot some bullets, just cos !!.
So what would y'all suggest I look for in a bullet mold ?.
I'm only a plinker so I don't need 'stopping power" sized hunks of lead just something to load and shoot in my back fields .
Also I will load off the gun so I won't be "dremel-ling" my barrel to get load clearance .
Any tips , hints , advice , all welcome  ...... (T^ .

Oh my revolvers are 44's ( both flavors    M__ )
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll, no longer riding on the merry-go-round .
I just had to let it go......... I just had to let it go.

J.W.L.

Offline Classanr

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 01:21:25 PM »
Basic set of options:

1. 10 grains under a wax bullet (search the Forum for several discussions, including where to purchase for surprisingly small price) does wonders for plinking at across-the-building distances.

2. If you want to go higher in weights, then DD4 has 190gr lead that do very well.  Note that as you fall below 190gr lead you are basically reverting to a RB.

3. If you want to make your own, several members will chime in on which molds to buy.

4. There are several serious heavy loads, such as Kaeto bullets, and a search will turn up discussions around the heavy end.

Lots of fellas shoot bullets.  Nothing to be ashamed of, that's for sure.  It's just that some guns like 'em, some guns not so much.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline mr wack

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 03:59:52 PM »
Thanks  Classanr for the info , #3 on your list is what I'm interested in mostly .
I am looking for mold ideas which drop bullets in the 180 - 200 gn range , nothing big .
I would hate to splash out on a mold only to find out later that that bullet ain't any good for bp revolvers .
As you can probably tell I have no idea about casting for these type handguns .... (&N 
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll, no longer riding on the merry-go-round .
I just had to let it go......... I just had to let it go.

J.W.L.

Offline Hawg

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 04:18:51 PM »
Round balls are generally more accurate.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline mr wack

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 04:53:02 PM »
Yeah I have heard that Hawg but I cast for all my firearms and just thought I would do it for the heck of it and say "I did it" ,, but rb's are better..   
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll, no longer riding on the merry-go-round .
I just had to let it go......... I just had to let it go.

J.W.L.

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 08:18:07 AM »
Many mould makers state the weight of the bullet as cast.
But some fail to tell you that that is based on a wheelweight lead to ?  ratio.
Accurate moulds does this. 
so my 190's are closer to 195 in pure lead  as pure lead is normally heavier then the same  amount (volume) of wheelweight.

average .454 round ball  is 140 grains  sometimes a bit heavier.

For all intents and purposes there is only one commercially available custom mould maker for our purposes that would be ACCURATE moulds.
They will make any design you want, within their capabilities.

Notice all  moulds in our sizes will start with 45   even though officially our guns are only 44's
Because a few thousandths is shaved off during the loading and shooting process.
Technically our barrel bore, not including grooves is .440  or 44

Also a round ball technically does not tumble  it spins cw or ccw.
But remember this, once a round ball is loaded into the chamber is no long round. It is now elongated front to back, more like a cylinder with rounded ends.

as such there will be a point between this and a longer bullet where the bullet maybe heavier at one end than the other which
will allow it to tumble before it can stabilize and become a true spinning (cw   ccw along its longitudinal length), which will
adversely affect accuracy.

to that if you are wanting to cast your own and have the largest selection of designs available I would say start here:
http://accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=11     about 1/3 of the way down starting with the 45-150s.
Another thing you will want is a slug designated for BP or with a rebated heel, making it easier to start the loading.
click on the drawing of the bullet you are interested in, it will open up the mechanical drawing of the bullet with the dimensional
specifications.
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Offline Omnivore

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 09:20:14 AM »
Some guns are set up more for round ball regarding the loading port in the frame or barrel, the nose shape of the plunger and the rifling twist rate.  So here we go again; without knowing what gun(s) we are discussing we can't be specific in any answers.  Repro?  What make and model?  One is NOT like another.

If you just want to try casting your own, and not spend a whole lot of time with calipers and hole gauges and design theory and so on, trying to decide how to order the heel diameter verses the major diameter, then just get the Lee 450-200-1R and have at it.

But then you don't say what guns we're talking about.  Lee makes that bullet in two sizes and weights because ONE 44 IS NOT THE SAME AS ANOTHER.  A Pietta Colt Army is not an Uberti Colt Army, for example, as one is more suited to round all and the other is designed more to accommodate a pointy ended conical.

There's no reason on Earth why a percussion revolver can't shoot circa 200 grain bullets as well as round ball.  There's nothing magical about the percussion ignition system that somehow makes it a different gun, operating on a different set of physical laws, from any modern revolver.  Bullet fit and rifling twist are just as important for the exact same reasons, and sight regulation will be different for a slower heavier bullet than for a faster, lighter one, etc., etc., etc., etc.  if round ball were inherently more accurate, professional, modern gun competitive shooters, whose very livelihood depends on shooting accurately, would be using them exclusively. The fact that practically none of them do should give you a clue.

So far the best groups I've fired from any handgun ever, were with a percussion revolver shooting compact (short for weight) conicals.

Why load off-gun if you could load on the gun more easily, without having to lug a separate press around?  There is much to discuss here, but we'd need to know what guns, (makes and models) we're actually discussing.  An Uberti Remington is ready to go for a wide range of conicals, for example, with no alterations.

Online ssb73q

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 12:02:18 PM »
Hi wack, the conical mold from Lee produces a good bullet for use in a BP revolver, see:
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-conical-cap-and-ball

Having said that, there is no bullet that uses less lead than the round ball. The round ball is also more accurate than the conical, at least from my experience.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline mr wack

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 12:40:37 PM »
Thanks again gents.
DD , I agree I should take a look at accurate molds, I have a few of Toms molds and custom they indeed are ,sometime in the future it might happen .

Omnivore , my revolvers are both Pietta's , both 44's , one is an 1860 and the other is a Rem 1858 .
I have a Uberti / Cimarron whitneyville dragoon on the Brown truck as I type .

ssb73q & Omnivore the Lee 200-r1 is interesting .

I have been casting for well over half of my life now  :9)  and haven't bought any bullets for that long so the casting aspect is covered , But I do follow the KISS credo,,,,,  :P
I like the challenge of getting a "new" firearm to "play nice" with cast bullets and these BP revolvers are new to me so the challenge was accepted .
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll, no longer riding on the merry-go-round .
I just had to let it go......... I just had to let it go.

J.W.L.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 02:43:53 PM »
Although none of the three Pietta Remington 44s I've tried will take the Lee bullet without modification, some say theirs will.  The Pietta Colt Army is set up for round ball, both with a long rifling twist and a plunger that's shaped for a ball.  Depending on the date of manufacture, the Pietta Remington may have a long twist, but if it's not much more than about a year old it may have the faster, 16" twist which will stablize anything you can fit in there of a half-way sane weight.  I modified my Remingtons, Pietta Colt Army and Uberti Walker to accept the Lee 200 and the Accurate Molds 45-200S.  They're also good to go with the Kaido 220 and 240 grain bullets, which have more nose taper than my 200S.  If you're loading off gun, that won't matter, but loading on the gun is easier and simpler once you do the mods.

I don't know about the Uberti Dragoons, but my Walker definitely needed substantial modification.

You'll quickly find that the Remington design is much more suited to easy loading of conicals (and paper carts) than any of the Colts.  That is, once the loading ports are opened up and such comparisons can therefore be made.

Since you've been casting for some time, does that mean you have a lube/sizer?  I size to .449" for the Piettas and .450" for Ubertis, but .450" or .451" will work in both.  In paper cartridges, .449" works in both, but will be too small for the Uberti when used naked.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that a conical bullet has to be oversized like a round ball, so it shaves a ring of lead - there's just no sense in that.

Since at Accurate Molds, the tolerance of the major diameter is all positive (e.g. .451" + .003" /- .000") then ordering a major diameter of .451" will give you more than enough diameter to work with, UNLESS you figure that at some point in the near future you'll be reaming out your chambers to .453" or some such.  His tolerance on heel diameter is negative.

I made a mistake when specifying the heel diameter in ordering the Accurate Molds designs.  I ordered them too tight, so any little teeny ding, or having them wrapped in paper cartridges, makes the heel too tight for easy loading.  If you're going to order a custom mold like that, get a heel diameter of .440" or .442, up to no more than .444".  Some of my Accurate Molds bullets load fine in the larger chambered Uberti, and they're tolerable but fussy in the Piettas when naked, but wrapped in paper cartridges they require my "heeling" process for easy loading in both Pietta and Uberti.

If I were designing a cap and ball bullet from scratch, for the Italian repros I'd want a longish heel (at least a tenth inch) that tapers from .440" at the base, up to about .444", with a small lube groove and a wide meplat (to make it shorter overall).

The Lee 200 is more of a tapered design, rather than having a distinct heel, and that's just fine.  They seem to always load easily, but as I say I size them down also, to .450" or even smaller.

Life at the range or in the field will be more pleasant if your bullet heels slip in easily, and the bullets seat tight without shaving lead.

Also a more tapered-nose bullet will generally require less modification of the gun for easy loading than a more blunt (more wadcutter-like) bullet.  That creates something of a conflict, because a longer bullet takes up more powder room in the chamber.  That would only matter if you're going for a full power hunting load though.

That should be enough to chew on for a while.

Offline mr wack

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 03:25:30 PM »
Thanks Omnivore and yes I have two Lyman 45's , one filled with Carnuba Red and the other filled with BAC for colder temps ( no heater).

You have certainly given me plenty to think about and thanks for that...  :)
I'm going over it again when I save it ... (T^
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:41:51 PM by mr wack »
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll, no longer riding on the merry-go-round .
I just had to let it go......... I just had to let it go.

J.W.L.

Offline old fogey

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Re: lightest bullet for bp revolvers ?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2016, 07:06:24 PM »
Lightest conical bullet that I'm aware (in .44, that is -) of is the 150 gr. EPP-UG by Dick Dastardly (think it's mainly cowboy action shooter's who use it though)!
                                                                            If you're wanting to buy just a few bullets to try out before you buy the mold, you can buy them here (they're called the "EPP-UG Airgun" - and never really thought it about it till just now but they probably are "the shit" in a )!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 04:16:38 PM by old fogey »