Author Topic: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...  (Read 5241 times)

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Offline shibbershabber

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looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:50:11 PM »
Ive been looking hard at getting one of these little guys... Im wondering how big they are?

Seems a fun addition to the collection, but also a way to get my son shooting a cap & ball.

Can anyone make a comparison photo with another pistol for reference... like against a j frame or any other common compact pistol?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:57:11 PM by shibbershabber »

Offline ssb73q

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 06:51:55 AM »
Hi shibber, here is a itty bitty Colt and Remington:



and here is the above Colt compared to the Remington 1858 Buffalo:



Here is a 5" 1911 in comparison with the small Colt shown above:



Know that the small revolvers can shoot accurately, but the short sight radius makes it difficult for good accuracy when used by the inexperienced. The small BP revolvers are best left to the experienced BP shooters. IMO the .36 caliber 1851 Colt is the most accurate and easy to use BP revolver. If your son can't handle the size or weight of the 1851, he is probably too young to get involved in BP shooting.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 09:21:04 AM »
Dear Shibber-Shabler,
            Save your money! they are the next best thing to Useless! Their accuracy is Non-Existant,  the sights are Almost non-existant, and the MAXIMUM load you can get into the chambers is 12.5 grains!  This gives a MAXIMUM velocity of only 680 fps. which is Puny to be charitable! When I had my twin Eight inch Remingtons I bought a pair of the Brass Framd Mini's. Older & Younger brothers you might say.  At 15 feet, they would bounce balls off Pine 2X4's. One came back and hit me on the upper left arm. The small bruise it caused was gone by the next morning!  I crammed powder into those things , to the extent of HAMMERING BALLS INTO THE CHAMBERS, USING A .32 RIFLE BALL STARTER, AND A LARGE CARPENTERS MALLET!  Performance did NOT improve!
            Accuracy was non existant. I was getting, at FIVE YARDS, an Impact Point three feet higher and two feet to the left of my aiming point!   The ONLY reason that I can think of for possessing one of these utterly useless things, is if you were a collector of Crazy useless things, or if you already had,  every other Remington ever made, and just wanted to make the collection complete.  I personally believe that it is quite possibly the MOST USELESS Pistol Ever Made..  My advice, find a bigger fool than yourself, who already has on of these quaint things, and ask him to let you shoot it.  That way you can find out for yourself, (If you are a doubting sort of guy?) and save yourself the Money, (They are not worth Five Cents!) and the embarrassment of explaning to your friends how you wasted X amount of money, on such a completely USELESS revolver will be spared you!  If you MUST have one, buy the cheaper Brass Framed copy.  You'll NEVER get enough powder in the chambers to stretch that Brass Frame, so at least you be spared the embarrassment of admitting you paid for the more expensive Steel framed version!
            The authors of;"Percussion Revolvers, A guide to their History, Performance and Use." wrote of this piece of junk:"It would be reasonable to regard the 12.5 charge as optimum since it is the maximum that will fit in the chambers, and lesser charges would only exacerbate the already puny performance of the small revolver."
            To sum up: Save your money! This will be something you will regret if you buy one!   The two I ought rom Dixie Gun Works, I threw away in a drawer, and never tried to shoot them again.  An English friend,(OOpps! (Sorry! EX-FRIEND!) later admired them so I gave them to him. He smuggled them into the UK, and when a cop who new his stuff, got onto him abuot where he had gotten them, he said from a friend in the USA.  WHEN THE COPS GOT ONTO ME FROM ENGLAND, I WASN'T GOING TO LIE FOR THE SOB! So I told them truthfully, that of course he knew they were Modern Made.  That I had told him the cops were a lot smarter these days, but that he would have them.  The SOB Damned near went to prison for it! Served him Right!  later found out that while being driven home from the Festival of the West by my wife, he had made improper advances to her  She was afraid that if she told me before he left, I'd have shot the Bastard!
                                                                                                      Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 09:41:45 AM by Gunslinger9378 »
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Offline shibbershabber

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 10:07:59 AM »
Wow.

This is more about having the piece in my collection than looking for a target pistol.

Plus the smaller size would make an easier entry piece for the kids. As the allure of shooting cap & ball is bigger than actually hitting a target for them.

For all of the sour words I read on these things... I'm sure having a hard time finding used ones!
Some have to be happy with them, or else there's be a glut of them on the used market and the Italians would stop producing them.

The search continues!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 10:23:18 AM »
Hi, shibber, irrespective of some negative closely held beliefs by some here, this is the first target shooting my Remington 1863, 5 shots from 7ys using the 32 S&W conversion cylinder:



BTW, my subsequent accuracy has gotten even better.

There is a learning curve with these itty bitties, but once learned they are a accurate as any other handgun. Accuracy is from the shooter, not the handgun.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline G Dog

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 09:11:32 PM »
Yep, Rem Pockets are plenty accurate and beautiful little things too.  My son has a steel frame and I get to shoot it some.  Those puppies can hit good.  Best gopher gun there is and handy at a card table in bad company.

It’s no .44 Johnnie, but they’ll do a job. 
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline necessaryevil

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 04:58:39 AM »
Here's a picture of mine.

I have found it a bit more difficult to shoot VERY accurately. Probably because my adult hands are big in comparison to the grip on the gun. Secondly at 57 years old the old peepers are not what they were. Like all guns I have a problem with small sights.

Your kids would not have either of these issues.

That being said earlier this week I took it to the range. At seven yards aiming at the "belly button" area of an IPSC target I got  a 2" group with four out of the five shots dead centre of the "chest area". Two of the shots were touching each other.

The fifth shot was a flyer entirely my fault and it hit the right "shoulder area". That was with a load of 11 grains of Pyrodex powder, a hand cast .322 dia round ball with REMINGTON no11 caps.

It isn't very powerful but if you only want it as a starter fun gun for the kids and not defensive use then go right ahead.

Even given it's lack of manstopping power that Johnnie mentions (and he is correct) I would not like someone to slip one out of their pocket shove it in my face and pull the trigger, which is what they were intended for.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 05:12:48 AM by necessaryevil »

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 11:39:16 AM »
Dear Shibber-Shabber,
            As has been pointed out, No-one wants to get shot with ANY type of gun, not even a worthless Remington Pocket Pistol. However one should remember the sage words of America's, "Father of Combat Pistol Shooters," The Late Great Geoff Cooper.
            This gentleman had been giving a lecture on Combat weapons to some ladies, who were also Government Law Enforcement Officers.  One of these ladies had seen a .25 Auto in a Gunsmith's display cabinet, and had been taken with it's small size.(And possibly the Pearl Grips it may have been fitted with!)  Mr. Coopers reply to this lady is a classic!  He told her:  "Carry it by all means, if it makes you feel better.  However, DO NOT SHOOT AT ANYONE WITH IT. For there is the remote possibility you may hit them, and this may make them very angry, and they then may do you serious harm!"
            The same as may anyone you shoot at with the Pocket Remington revolver!  From where I stand in this discussion, the .31 Remington is the 19th. Century's .25 Auto.   Small and Pretty, but not worth a Damn as a Weapon!  Unless you are very, VERY Fortunate, and hit them in the eyeball! (With an UPWARD INCLINATION!!!) And while many of my fellow members
are probably better shots than I am,  Any that ARE BETTER SHOTS, would doubtless have a weapon that was more. "Combat Suitable," than the tiny "Mouse Gun," under discussion here!
            A contributor to the Magazine, "Guns & Ammo," wrote once of an incident where a man and is son were returning from a morning walk on the Veldt. when the son, who was ahead of his Father, saw a full-Grown Lion on their Front Porch.  Before his Father could stop him, the boy had thrown his .22 rifle to his shoulder and fired! The lion's head dropped onto his front paws, stone dead.  The boys puny slug had gone through the eyeball and killed the Big Cat! It was a sheer Fluke!  The Boy's aim would only have had to be a Millimeter or so off, and the outcome could have been tragic.  A lot of men are very hard to kill indeed!  Espescially if they are "Hopped Up," on Adrenaline, or some Illegal Narcotic!
            There have been a lot of opinions expressed on this forum on Black Powder  Snubbies!  Two Veterans of The War of Northern Aggression, who were friends of Elmer Keith as a young man, told him that the .36 Navy Colts they had both carried while serving in that war, were, "Certain Fight Stoppers," WHEN LOADED WITH THE ROUND BALL."  THAT THE CONICAL BALL WAS not always A GOOD FIGHT STOPPER.  A fellow member of this forum has stated that this was because the Conical Bullet was used in the ready-Made Cartridges (PaperCartridges, supplied in boxes of six, to the troops of both sides.) and that the load behind the bullets was, (To put it charitably!) Kinda Puny!  I consider this to be very probably true!  A man in combat, who was hand loading his personal revolver, with loose Powder and a round ball, would most probably put sufficient powder
behind the ball to, "Get the Job Done Properly!!!"  Whereas, the man who saw combat very infrequently, would be content to stuff the Paper Cartridges in, (Because it was easier! Quicker, and they "Allus went bang!") The Cavalryman, who resorted to his revolver much more than any other branch of the Services, had learned from some of his comrades, that not only was the .44 Revolver very effective,  but it too was a, "Sure Thing Fight Stopper!"
            In the book he wrote after he returned to England, Col Freemantle of Queen Victoria's Coldstream Guards, who got into America Via the Blockade at Galveston, Texas. and who witnessed the Battle of Gettysburg, before crossing the lines to Also witness the efforts of the Union Soldiers, before getting to Washington, and then returning to Britain, wrote when speaking of the Cavalry engagements he witnessed, "The American Cavalry do not fight as Cavalry should, but have become "Revolver Fighters!"  Which seems more like Common Sense to me.  Obviously, if you are close enough to an enemy Soldier to whach him with your Saber,  Then he is close enough to you, to whack you with HIS Sabre!  Makes more sense to shoot him with your revolver, before he gets that close!  The assimilation of the Handgun into Military Ranks, spelled the doom of The
Sabre Armed Horseman.  Col. Freemantle said a mouthful, when he called American Cavalrymen,"Revolver Fighters!" 
            In the turbulent years following the End of The War, and the horrors of,"Reconstruction," most of the Federal Lawmen continued the tradition of the Revolver Fighter's! The Texas Rangers, The Federal Marshall's who worked in Judge's Isaac C.
Parkers Territory, out of Fort Smith, Arkansas's, also relied on Horsemanship to bring their Quarry to Justice! And of course, The revolver!
            While British Army Officers also relied on the Handgun, no other country has taken to it's heart, the Handgun, the way that the United States of America has done!  It can almost be called, "The National Weapon!"  The most wonderful Lies have been told about certain Famous and Infamouse practicioners of it's Art.  From James Butler (Wild Bill.)Hickok, (Who really was a very fine pistol Shot, and who was never loth to demonstrate his skill) To Wannabee's, Like the Famous "Buffalo Bill Cody, who used Spread shot to break glass balls thrown up into the air by "Stage-Hands," in his "Wild West."  (Note that the term,
"Wild West Show," was NEVER USED BY William, F. Cody. It was always, "Buffalo Bill's Wild West!"
            While "Doc," Carver, another Wild West Showman from the mid 19th Century, would indulge in Rifle & Pistol Contests with J.B. Hickok, while Doc Carver would often win their Rifle contest's, Wild Bill ALWAYS won the Pistol Contests!  James Butler Hickok was undoubtedly one of the World's Finest Pistol shots who ever drew breath!  He was ALWAYS willing to demonstrate his ability, and never said, "Well give me  a couple of days to get ready."  He would stand midway between two telegraph poles, glance at both, then draw BOTH REVOLVERS simultaneously, fire them both together, and put a ball into BOTH poles at the same height. Usually his own waist height!  He was never loth to put on a demonstration of this kind.  He probably saved a lot of men's lives that way.  When men who may have wanted to, "Get him out of the way," saw the skill he displayed with his guns, they may well have had second thoughts about the matter!  The man quite literally NEVER MISSED
ANYTHING HE EVER SHOT AT! 
            In recent years we had another like Hickok.  He was also called "Bill!"  William Henry Jordan, was a retired  U.S. Border
Patrol Member.  He used to give shooting Demonstrations, all over the USA.  One trick shot he'd pull was to stand a row of Life Saver Mints on a little ledge. Then he'd draw and fire a Smith & Wesson .22 revolver. Nothing would happen.  Then he'd say, well the slug must have gone through the hole in the center!  Laughter from the watchers.  Bill's mile would fade, then he'd take from his bag, s roll of Scotch Tape, take the Life Saver, and tape the hole over, then put it back on the table. Then draw and fire a second time, and the Life Saver would tople over. Then he'd hand the Life Saver  to a member of the audience, and tell them to pass it around.   The Scotch tape hd been pierced by a bullet!   Just like Wild Bill, William Henry Jordan was, "The Real Thing!" He now lies buried in he Cemetary in Linden Texas , where he had family, although for the past several years, he had lived in Louisianna!
                                                                                                       Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.                                                                         
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 12:42:46 PM »
There are any number of great reasons to get a .31 besides hyper-frantically defending one’s life 24/7. 

Johnnie, sometimes (most of the time) you sound like you don’t really like cap & ball revolvers.  If you owned a modern handgun, would you still have any interest in antique style revolvers?  It does not seem that you would.

Why don’t you get a 1911 or other semiauto as your killa still, take a couple of deep breaths, then relax and enjoy black powder shooting for the fun of it? 
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline snake-eyes

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 01:19:35 PM »
G-Dog,
          Well at least we know a .22 can't kill a Life Saver. Need a round bigger than a
Life Saver hole. M__
             snake-eyes  )&&
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Offline old fogey

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 02:30:51 PM »
Johnnie, (as a historical aside to your post above.) did you happen to know that many of John Wayne's film characters were based upon a member of Judge Parker's Marshalls' named Bass Reeves (he couldn't get any film credits under any of John Wayne's films because it was deemed "unseemly" to producers for the character to be black). He actually shot  far more men than John Wesley Hardin in his archtypical gunfights (actually he's believed by "those in the know" to have far more "notches in his gun" than any other person from the 1800's,) and was the factual basis for the mythical "Lone Ranger" (he, like the Lone Ranger and John Waynes' "Rooster Cogburn", had a indian scout)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:48:46 PM by old fogey »

Offline jbw

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 12:57:45 PM »
Try loading with 10 grs swiss no. 1 (4F), goes right through a ½" pine board at 12 m distance

Offline necessaryevil

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2016, 01:15:42 PM »
Check this video out. The kid in this video on my recommendation via YouTube loaded his cylinder off the gun. His cylinder was mounted on a home made loading stand. With a custom made brass drift and plastic hammer he managed to compress 15 grains of fffg under a .319 round ball. It penetrates FOUR gallon jugs of water. A .22lr out of a rifle does nowhere near as good.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 01:23:54 PM by necessaryevil »

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 01:34:41 PM »
Dear Necessary Evil,
            Well that certainly is a surprise.  However I still fail to see the need to have a SMALL GUN!  Unlike you, I am a LITTLE GUY!  I now stand roughly 5'-7", having shrunk a little after passing the 70 year mark, and yet I can easily conceal a 5.5" barreled Remington 1863 on my puny frame!  With the larger gun, I can get a good comfortable and SAFE grip on the gun, and if shooting in a hurry, have the longer sight radius, which MUST be easier to acquire than with the Mouse Gun! As the Late, Great Jell Cooper often said of the .25 Auto, that it was an answer to a problem that did not exist!
            For if you shot at a person with a .22, you MAY kill them. However if you miss by so much as half an inch, the vital spot you are hoping to hit, you will certainly make him very angry, and he then may do you serious harm!
            However, if you hit a person who is aggressively minded toward you, almost ANYWHERE in the area of the rib cage, with a .44 or .45 projectile, he will almost certainly become sufficiently disoriented, to make a certain killing shot on YOU, a very Iffy proposition!
            So with the benefit of what I have learned from the Late Lamented Mr. Cooper, and from the writing of Bill Jordan, and the writings of both Elmer Keith and the late Colonel Charles Askins, I will continue to carry a 5.5" Remington.  For I am USED to this gun, and it has a supurb trigger release!
            In addition, when you grab for you weapon in a hurry, you are far more likely to get a sure grip on the gun if it is a,"Normal Sized weapon."  Your return fire is thus far more likely to be accurate!   So I feel sure that if the Late Jeff Cooper were still with us, he would agree with me  in favor of the larger, and more efficiently handled weapon, over the Mouse Gun!  For with the Mouse Gun, to ensure your own survival, you would have to hit the EXACT SPOT on your assailant, in order to bring about a successful end to the encounter, from your point of view!
            Very few of us have the kind of reflexes that must have been possessed by James Butler (Wild Bill.) Hickok!  He was definitely a, "One Off!" After the Lord made him, he broke the mold!!!  The same with Bill Jordan, and the Late Bob Munden!  Most of us I feel quite certain, are,"Average Fair to Middling good shots!"  Very few of us are ever going to find ourselves in a Gunfight!  I carry mine every day, and hope that one day I may be able to do some good, by putting out of action, someone who is either robbing a store, or threatening to harm another person unlawfully. I fully realise that the chances of this happening to me, are about thirty Million to one! Yet I still carry every day, because, "One never knows," and as Woodrow F.Call said to Newt Dobbs in "Lonesome Dove," as he tossed the boy a pistol and belt. "Better to have and not need, than to need and not have!"
            So while it may be POSSIBLE to save ones life with a Mouse Gun, one can increase the PROBABILITY of doing so by carrying a .44!  The Union Veteran of the War of Northern Aggession, who was friends with Elmer Keith, and the Confederate Veteran, BOTH told Elmer that the .36 Navy was a good fight stopper.  However both the worthy men were obviously expert shots. at least after they had been in combat for a spell!  Also I strongly suspect that they may have tried using the, "Storebought," boxes of commercially made Paper Cartridges, and had found them wanting, for apparently BOTH veterans told Elmer, that the caliber was deadly, WHEN LOADED WITH THE ROUND BALL!  Which implied that the .36 wasn't much use with the paper cartridges!!!!!
            Also it was a common phrase used in the late 19th Century, that: "The .36 will give you a skin complaint, while the .44 will dust you both sides!"  A reference to the fact that when a man is shot with the .44, a puff of dust will be seen to erupt from his clothing as the bullet passes right though him, causing a puff of dust to be seen from his clothing both where the bullet first hits him, and as it exits his body!
            When the United states fought the War against the Morro's in the Phillippines, the army at that time was issued the .38 revolver.  This proved inadequate to deal with Phillipino Tribesmen who had hopped themselves up on some kind of Jungle Juice, and were feeling no pain when they went into Combat!  So the army shipped out to the men, some .44 S.A. Army revolvers that had been removed from Service.  These did the job very well, as one well placed shot from the old .45 in the chest, was very successful in rendering a hopped up Morro Tribesman, "Permanently Inactive!"
           Now, the High Command has repeated the earlier folly, by going over to the 9mm.  Proving without any doubt that the term, "Military Intelligence," is indeed an Oxymoron!!!!!  So a great many of our brave Marines and Soldiers will die un-necessarily, because the 9mm will penetrate, but has insufficient power to incapacitate a determined antagonist!
Elmer Keith said that the bigger the hole you punch in either a human enemy, or an animal that you are hunting, the sooner that person or animal, will be unable to fight back or continue to run and escape! 
           Yesterday, I think I wrote of learning of the tactics that the Allied High Command used at the Battle of the Somme in July 1916!  The Tactics were the very same as those used by Robert E . Lee at Gettysburg in 1863, FIFTY THREE YEARS EARLIER! The Nincompops with all the scrambled egg on their hats, had learned NOTHING in FIFTY THREE YEARS! So why should we begin hoping now!
           May God Bless and Save all our troops, wherever they are serving as in this troubled world, is my prayer, in the name of our Beloved Saviour, Jesus the Christ!
                                                               
                                                                         Gunslinger9378.
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline G Dog

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Re: looking for a .31 Remmy... question on size...
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 01:59:50 PM »
Pocket .31’s are cool, way cool.  My elder son has a steel Rem Pocket (to go with his Rem 5.5 and ’51) and I get to shoot it sometimes.  Although not anybody’s first choice in a combat carry weapon it’s still a heap a fun.  There are other targets worth shooting at than someone else’s bad dreams.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 02:05:05 PM by G Dog »
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)