Author Topic: Frame stretching  (Read 13080 times)

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Offline prof marvel

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2015, 10:27:02 PM »
Do you think M9P is on to something?  Maybe not "frame stretch" but "shield smashing" is the culprit?

That is an excellent hypothesis, especially since those who have installed a steel washer fix in the shield
have not reported any further problems?

yhs
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2015, 02:53:33 AM »
Do you think M9P is on to something?  Maybe not "frame stretch" but "shield smashing" is the culprit?

Mine shows a little evidence of stretching. The cylinder pin is harder to remove/install. Not much but there is a difference. When you put it in with the cylinder out you can tell its riding the edge of the hole.

 

There might be a *better* place to measure for testing, but when the cylinder/barrel gap widens to .025 it is pretty much conclusive that stretch happened.

You would be surprised at how deep the cylinder can hammer itself into the recoil shield...certainly more than .025. I'm sure Hawg can back me up on that.

For sure. It can hammer itself deeper for as long as it will still function but at some point I'm sure it will lock up tight.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline M9Powell

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2015, 03:06:02 AM »

Mine shows a little evidence of stretching. The cylinder pin is harder to remove/install. Not much but there is a difference. When you put it in with the cylinder out you can tell its riding the edge of the hole.


 So presumably if one was to install a steel recoil shield, it would be better to go ahead and do it before the frame deformed to that point.

Offline Hawg

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2015, 07:27:04 AM »
I would say so.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2015, 10:44:07 AM »
That’s OK Creek.  We were all dumb in 1969.
Me, maybe moreso than some others.  Volunteered for Vietnam back then.!
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
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Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline M9Powell

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2015, 12:56:07 PM »
That’s OK Creek.  We were all dumb in 1969.
Me, maybe moreso than some others.  Volunteered for Vietnam back then.!

Never, ever volunteer for anything, if they have to ask for volunteers, it sucks. If it's a pie job some REMF already has it.

Offline soundguy

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2016, 07:03:29 AM »
Sometimes you run into such a deal on a brasser, it's hard to pass up. My Cabelas has a NIB returned 1858 buffalo brasser for 225$. I was good though  )%R I didn't buy it. But I can still hear it's siren song. "You get paid on Tuesday come back and get me, please I need a new home". I'm not good at resisting temptation where women and guns and old single malt r concerned. If they mark it down to 199$ I know resistance is futile, I'll surrender (5&

They hit 199$ just recently for new ones at cabelas.    :)

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2016, 08:55:50 AM »
There was a reason why I needed to volunteer.
As it turns out there have been benefits because of it.
So sometimes you have to look further than just the tip of your nose!
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
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Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline Gunslinger9378

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2016, 12:11:05 PM »
Gentlemen,
               My Dear Late Father, had a saying he would trot out, whenever I spent my pocket Money,(That's English for "Allowance!") on something he considered a waste of money.  He'd say,"A Fool and his money are soon parted." I regard the purchase of a Brass Framed Revolver a waste of money!  Save up a few dollars more, and you can buy a Steel Framed Gun and enjoy that sucker of YEARS & YEARS!  A steel framed gun will last long enough to pass it onto your Son! (I'm talking Remington here of course!!!)
               The Confederacy used Bronze or Brass framed guns, because such a weapon was a little better than NO gun at all!  I guess the hope was, that before the pistol became a piece of junk, the man issued with it, could kill a Yankee, and take his steel framed gun from the body!  AH! Those were the Days!!!  I suppose you cold move to Detroit, and kill some Scumbag who broke into your new home, but then probably all you'd get would be a Glock! YUK!!! (And a Stolen one at that!!!!)
               With a steel framed Percussion Revolver, you could still feed it Mouse Fart Loads, if punching Paper Turns You On?  However you could also feed it my, "Medical Examiner Special load,"  and send some Miserable Rapist Maggot, to the Ultimate of Destinations!(Downwards, into Hades!) Where he would doubtless enjoy meeting Fellow Gang-Members, Drug Dealers, and other assorted Slimeballs! (It's an Ill Wind! etc!)  I've read it on here, that some members say of Brassers, "Oh, but they polish up so nicely!" "Well Pretty is as Pretty Does!"  Just ONE cylinder of MY load would most likely turn any Brasser into a Paperweight!!!
                                                                                                                                 Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
               

               
Never make the mistake of thinking I will not shoot..........
Because it may be your very last mistake!

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2016, 12:25:24 PM »
First gun or defense gun, I'm right there with ya, Johnny.
But when acquiring multiples or collecting, why not? You can get two brassers for the price of one steelie on the used market. Just sayin'....
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2016, 01:53:05 PM »
I do believe the bronze the Confederacy used held up better than the brass they use today does.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2016, 02:54:43 PM »
If my life potentially depended on only one model of cap and ball revolver I would probably be down on brass too.  Fortunately, for most of us, that is not the case.  Sometimes, it seems for some, that only after the self-defense angle is adequately covered (if ever) can one stop hyperventilating, relax, chill out and shoot C&B for fun.  It’s doubtful that anyone today can objectively evaluate and appreciate percussion handguns prior to owning at least one modern weapon.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2016, 05:53:42 PM »
Had (have) a Ruger super blackhawk 44 for years before I ought my first C&B
I put a lot of rounds through it. But I bet I have more rounds through my various C&B's

We used to have a saying in racing back when     Cheaper to show it than go it!
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps.
General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC
to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946
------------
Marines Birthday  11/10/1775
USA birthday  7/4/1776

Offline prof marvel

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2016, 06:36:18 PM »
I do believe the bronze the Confederacy used held up better than the brass they use today does.

Bingo! Back In The Day, they used a bronze generally called "gun bronze" or "bell bronze" .

in another forum "James Kelly" posted:
The original '66 used a cast gunmetal frame. Some years ago I analyzed a Henry Pat. marked 1866 rifle, it was nominally
It was 87% copper, 9.9% tin, 2.6% zinc and 0.9% lead. The most common name for this alloy is "gunmetal"

Driftwood Johnson  had the "Brass" frame metal from an Uberti 1866  analyzed some years ago.
There was a belief the frames were made from Bronze.  Turned out they are made from common Brass, as are the pistol frames

common brass:
Driftwood's analysis of 56% copper, 44% zinc is something I might maybe have rather not known.

Common cartridge brass is 70% Copper 30%zinc.
Raising the zinc so high may be good for tensile strength but not so good for toughness (resistance to cracking)

Elsewhere, Driftwood posted:
For what it's worth, in his book Fighting Iron, A Metals Handbook for Arms Collectors, Art Gogan states that the 19th Century alloys for Gun Metal were 80 - 88% copper, 10 - 15% tin, 2 - 5% zinc, with small amounts of lead added to improve fluidity for casting. He states the frame of a WInchester Model 1866, manufactured in 1868 was tested and the alloy was found to be 80% copper, 14.5% tin, 2% zinc, and .5% lead. He does not state what method was used to test the alloy.


BTW recent studies have shown that copper and brass have anti-microbial qualities :-)

ugly details:

Tensile Common Name      Copper %   tin   Zinc %   Lead %   Other
40 kpsi   63/37 Common brass   62-65      -   ~37    -   -
44 kpsi   gunmetal bronze    85%       5%   5%   5%
45 kpsi   Gvmt bronze H is    83%      14%   3%   -   0.8% phosphorus

gunmetal bronze and Gvmt Bronze H compare favorably to mild steel which has a tensile strenght of ~45,000 psi

If I had my druthers I would like to have both an 1866 and some Remmies cast in Phospher Bronze or Nickel Silver Bronze

Phospher Bronze is a nice yellow bronze, very resistant to salt water corrosion, with a tensile strength of 65,000 psi.
I was very popular in Naval uses where strength was required.

Nickel Silver Bronze is a lovely yellowish/silver alloy that brazes nicely and fows well at a high heat, is ductile,
can actually be forged at "red-to-orange" heat, but crumbles under the hammer at "yellow" heat. It machines easily,
is very corrosion resistant, and has a tensile strength of 85,000 psi! A Remmy frame in this alloy would compare very favorably
to a model P, and would actually be stronger .

yhs
prof marvel
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 10:45:35 PM by prof marvel »
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Frame stretching
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2016, 09:42:14 PM »
Gunmetal was also called red brass from the copper content.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.