Author Topic: Disable cap and ball revolvers  (Read 10936 times)

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Offline Hawg

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2013, 07:26:02 PM »
ASM's had good fit and finish but many had soft internal parts that didn't last long. Some did, some didn't.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2013, 11:04:36 PM »
Hi Sam, since I got the revolvers back today and totally dissembled two of them, I must say that those ASM revolvers are the equal if not better than my Piettas. What's nice about the ASMs is that the barrel markings are hidden under the loading lever. Tomorrow I will clean all the parts and polish the brass. I will also see if Pietta parts are interchangeable with the ASMs.

Other than the brass frame, the ASMs are nicer than I remembered when I gave them to my brother-in-law. I have a theory about the ability of brass frame 1860s to use conversion cylinders, but will hold that argument until I do a little more research.

Regards,
Richard

Richard..whatever your theory, I would tend to steer you away from it unless it involves cartridges loaded with black powder. Especially open-frame Colt replicas. You might get away with it for a (very) short time, but in the end you will destroy the gun for shooting purposes
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2013, 06:23:58 AM »

Other than the brass frame, the ASMs are nicer than I remembered when I gave them to my brother-in-law. I have a theory about the ability of brass frame 1860s to use conversion cylinders, but will hold that argument until I do a little more research.

Regards,
Richard


Richard..whatever your theory, I would tend to steer you away from it unless it involves cartridges loaded with black powder. Especially open-frame Colt replicas. You might get away with it for a (very) short time, but in the end you will destroy the gun for shooting purposes

Hi Captain, my research suggests that only the 1860 type brass frames may be suitable for conversion cylinder use. The brass frame 1858s are definitely out. In the interest of not getting someone hurt because of misinterpretation and the potential of starting an urban myth, or being misquoted, I will not discuss this further.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2013, 08:20:36 AM »
No offense but you need to do some more research. Many of the original Colt conversions cracked their frames and they were case hardened. A brass conversion will probably be ok if you keep charges down around 20 grains or less but I wouldn't go above 20.
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Offline Sheriff Langston

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2013, 11:21:43 AM »
Quote
I also live in NYS, that law has been in effect for over 30 years, long before the recent insanity.
Yes, I knew that. I was asking if the new laws had added regulations concerning B/P percussion guns & so on. Sorry for the confusion.
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2013, 02:39:30 PM »
ASM's had good fit and finish but many had soft internal parts that didn't last long. Some did, some didn't.

Hi Hawg, after disassembling that cleaning up these revolver, I must admit that these ASM revolvers are very well made and beautiful in both fit and function. Better even than what I have with my Pietta revolvers. I wonder why ASM went belly up?

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 02:54:01 PM »
From what I found they were sold to American Western Arms who didn't make C&B revolvers. Then later ASM tried to start making them again but fit and finish were bad. They were a good bit cheaper than Pietta and still couldn't sell any. I don't know if AWA revived the ASM name or if the original owners of ASM tried to start it back up but whichever way it was ASM finally threw in the towel sometime around 99-01
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2013, 08:58:30 AM »

Hi, today my two 1860 and two 1861 Navy brass frame revolvers were returned to me. When I originally purchased them in the 1980s, markings meant little to me. I now see that these excellent condition brass framed revolvers are ASM manufacture. Three of the revolvers have serial numbers, date codes, and proof marks. However, one of the 1860 revolvers has only one marking, no serial number, date code, or manufacturer. It is a perfect clone of the other 1860, but with only an A with a small v inside on the brass frame.

Does anyone have an idea on why the one revolver is missing all the other normal markings and serial number? Could there be a safety issue firing this revolver?

Regards,
Richard

Hi, I again took apart the 1860 Army brass framed revolver and looked at all the parts very closely with a magnifier. Other than the A with small v or heart stamped inside the A on the frame, I did find a very small serial number stamped inside the frame, 254. Also, inside the barrel at the forcing cone end was a stamped 254. Looking closely on the wood grip, there was also the marking 254. Without the magnifier, these marking are easy to miss. The revolver parts appear to be a clone of the brass frame ASM marked 1860 six digit serial number (A81896) purchased from Cabelas at the same time. The ASM marked 1860 also has the A with the small v mark. The only difference between these revolvers is a small milling depression on the inside the trigger guard of the ASM marked revolver, but not on the 254 revolver. IMO the SN 254 revolver is either a very early ASM revolver, or a serial rollover numbers starting anew? Could it also be an American Western Arms as suggested by Hawg?

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2013, 10:04:55 AM »
You could tear both down and see if the parts all interchange but odds are if it was bought at the same place a the same time they're both ASM. I just don't understand the lack of Gardonne proofs.
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2013, 01:28:20 PM »
Hi, I live in the Socialist Republic of New York State. If I have caps, powder, and projectiles for cap and ball revolvers, I must have those revolvers added to my NYS pistol permit.

Many years ago I gave my brother-in-law 4 brass framed .44 1860 Army and Navy revolvers. He used them for display and never had materials necessary to fire them. He recently passed away and I suspect that those revolvers will be returned to me. I don't want to have those revolvers added to my pistol permit.

I would also like to use them as hangers and want them to somewhat function mechanically, but modify them so that they can't be easily fired. I was thinking of filling the nipples with epoxy to disable the revolvers. Do you think that modification would satisfy the legal requirement for a disabled revolver?

Regards,
Richard

I also live in NYS, that law has been in effect for over 30 years, long before the recent insanity.  My simple suggestion is pull the nipples, the thing is no longer shootable, no foul.  If you're worried about the state troopers come-a-knockin at your door over a BP pistol, then you're probably guilty of more heinous crimes.

Are you?  Hmmm?   )L$ (?^

Hi Sam, you hit on the solution to my problem! You're the man! Since I don't have any other firearms that use the nipple size that is required for my ASM revolvers, removing and throwing away the nipples is the solution. Then there is no way to use the revolvers even though I have powder and caps. I will try to find out the ASM thread size so to put Allen screws in the nipple holes to protect the threads.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Saranac Sam

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2013, 05:17:16 PM »
Richard, glad that I could offer something useful  (T^  I think your idea of plugging the nipple holes with Allen screws is right on.  Take the old nipples and make them into ear-rings, or stick them to a magnet in a sandwich baggie and bury them in the cabbage patch.

Back in 79 or 80, I bought my first CVA single shot caplock pistol, wanted to take it to the range to shoot, so I needed a pistol permit.  No problem, got it in six weeks (figure about a year nowadays).  I've added a few other things, never a problem.  What I'm hearing, is that a lot depends on the attitude of the local county judge, in New York State...since permits are controlled through the local county sheriff, not state police.  My local county judge is reasonable, some are real PITAs.  Just sayin...
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2013, 06:54:32 PM »
Hi Sam, since I already have a pistol permit, getting the pistols on my NYS permit is nothing more than showing up at the county clerk's office and paying $3 for each pistol added to my permit. Other than my permit looking thicker and more used than a 5-year playboy calender, the real problem is getting them off the permit if something happens to me. The police confiscate all the pistols after death until another permit holder can receive them. Once on a permit, they will always remain registered firearms unless removed by god-knows-who. One way to rid myself, other than disabling the revolvers, is to sell them. However, I'm reluctant to part with them, they are so handsome with all that blued steel and polished brass.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline mike116

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2013, 07:12:20 PM »
Richard,   I love my ASM 1860 (steel frame).  I just replaced the hammer and trigger on mine with a hammer and trigger from a Pietta critical parts kit I bought from Numrich.  Everything fits with some minor adjustments.  The trigger screw hole is too small for the ASM trigger screw but is easily enlarged.  Same goes for the bolt.  The hand is too long and must be shortened also. The hand and bolt on mine are nearly perfect so I haven't changed them.  Someone before me tried to do a trigger job and made the thing a time bomb so the trigger and hammer were a necessity.   My 1860 is probably my favorite of the six I own.   I plan to keep it so if you want to get rid of those nipples you can send them to me.  It's always nice to have a couple spares. 
Thanks,
Mike

Offline Saranac Sam

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2013, 10:45:36 PM »
Hi Sam, since I already have a pistol permit, getting the pistols on my NYS permit is nothing more than showing up at the county clerk's office and paying $3 for each pistol added to my permit. Other than my permit looking thicker and more used than a 5-year playboy calender, the real problem is getting them off the permit if something happens to me. The police confiscate all the pistols after death until another permit holder can receive them. Once on a permit, they will always remain registered firearms unless removed by god-knows-who. One way to rid myself, other than disabling the revolvers, is to sell them. However, I'm reluctant to part with them, they are so handsome with all that blued steel and polished brass.

Regards,
Richard

   Richard, that's been exactly my experience on the permit. 
   I've been telling my wife for years to get a pistol permit so she can adopt my collection when I die and get rid of them in a profitable and timely fashion. She hasn't.
   Two things occur to me:  No bureaucratic licensing agency is going to know I'm dead unless somebody tells them.  We can all connect the dots about that.
    Secondly, when I'm dead I'll be flying away to new adventures, no looking back, no hovering around the ceiling of the living room worrying about my collections.  My wife and kids have been warned about their coming burden, I've spelled it out with suggested solutions.  They're in denial, not my problem.
    Meantime, I plan to slap leather, burn powder and sling lead.    ])M

In a peaceful, legal and constructive way, of course.
Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Disable cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2013, 06:54:44 AM »
One way to rid myself, other than disabling the revolvers, is to sell them. However, I'm reluctant to part with them, they are so handsome with all that blued steel and polished brass.

Regards,
Richard

Here they are ready for hanging or sale:

No flash:


Flash:


Pretty, ain't they?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!