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Author Topic: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth  (Read 1406 times)

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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 04:53:26 PM »
Ah.
You got to post pics and stuff while i was writing a reply.

That strikes at least me as a plains rifle that originally was a flintlock and then got modified to percussion cap. Is it a 45cal gun? Do we have any reference as far as twist?

Plains rifles can be semi expensive of what i´ve seen,in the US that is,but this one´s seen quite a bit of stock repair.. What´s the bore like of that thing?
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Offline BOOMSTICK BRUCE

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 06:50:36 PM »
Ah.
You got to post pics and stuff while i was writing a reply.

That strikes at least me as a plains rifle that originally was a flintlock and then got modified to percussion cap. Is it a 45cal gun? Do we have any reference as far as twist?

Plains rifles can be semi expensive of what i´ve seen,in the US that is,but this one´s seen quite a bit of stock repair.. What´s the bore like of that thing?

bore looks good, If memory serves me its a 36 cal, I have no idea what the twist rate is.. i'll go look at it again soon. hes been trying to get me to buy it but i'll just resell it.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 11:01:53 PM »
Racing, I have no idea why they used harder lead.

Bruce that rifle in my opinion was put together out of parts of several rifles. Some of the inletting is pretty bad. The trigger guard looks like a Leman and the side plate looks more like a Vincent. Maybe somebody with more knowledge than me can shed some light on it. Whitmore & Wolff were lock makers only from around 1837-1876.
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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2019, 12:00:47 PM »
Spring surely is around the corner  (T^

Had a great day at the range together with like minded this saturday. Shooting loads of different firearms.

Annual meeting at the club today in turn where i got elected as new chairman. )%R
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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2019, 02:24:41 PM »
We´re pushing on...

There´s those claiming that the hot ticket for the Whitworths is a PP bullet,and then of the original specs. Ie;a "screwed" bullet that is slightly undersize to be patched to juuuuuuust interference fit.

Said and done! So this is the new swaging die...
DVC - 2018

Offline Dellbert

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2019, 06:30:56 PM »
"Mindblowing", you said it, I started at the first post on this thread till I got to the last post you made has blown my mind Racing. It's been a real joy to sit back and watch you go step by step with your Whitworth rifle. Thank you for posting it with the pics. Looking forward to hearing more out of this.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2019, 09:45:02 PM »
"Mindblowing", you said it, I started at the first post on this thread till I got to the last post you made has blown my mind Racing. It's been a real joy to sit back and watch you go step by step with your Whitworth rifle. Thank you for posting it with the pics. Looking forward to hearing more out of this.

Whut he said.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2019, 04:19:38 PM »
 :)
Well,then i hope to please still.

Right. So this time out dimensions has been pushed around a tad to cater for a paper patched bullet. According to the gents "in the know" this is supposed to be the way to fly for bullets that follow the original hex pattern.

This then swage die 2.0 and as such.. So the nose piece for instance has an evacuation hole so that IF there´s to much material in there,the slugs used,the surplus has somewhere to go.
What´s more,we´ve learned from our miss´s with 1.0...and have adjusted accordingly. Indeed this time out,way better outcome.

Buuuut...read on..  {?|
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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2019, 04:25:05 PM »
..nope.
That wasn´t all.

This time out i bet even our own Brad will get a smile on his face. That helical bullet shape makes for some rather involved machining when a CASTING mold is on the agenda.
Yep.
While we were at it we went...F it and let that multi axis NC rip. So that there is two casting molds of somewhat differing dimensions.
Needs to have sprue plates added of course but suffice it to say that i´ve already cast a few bullets with molds just in between a pair of pliers and..this works. Period.  M__

Well. I guess this is where Whitworth goes 21st century boys!

However. Both them molds are for paper patch and i want one to use "as cast " too so..ordered one such from German Hensel,which is the last pic.

In turn i just got word the other day that that Unertl scope FINALLY cleared US customs in Chic. It´s beyond me guys but..that scope was shipped out of Texas..ends up at O´hare...and just sits there between feb 10 and march 5th....then...the other day...
"On its way".
Yeah. Whatever... (k-

DVC - 2018

Offline Hawg

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2019, 09:30:52 PM »
Welcome to the U.S. Postal Service. I ordered something once that shipped from China. It made it from China to New York in 24 hours. Stayed in NY for five days in quarantine. IIRC it took two days to go to Chicago, two more days to get to Atlanta, two more to get to mobile. One day to go from Mobile to Hattiesburg 50 miles from delivery. Sat in Hattiesburg for two days then went back to mobile in a day, back to Hattiesburg in a day and I got it the next day.  (u^ If I mail something from here to Atlanta. It will either go to Jackson or Memphis first. Neither of which are on the way to Atlanta.  ^y%
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline Yolla Bolly Brad

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2019, 11:15:13 AM »
..nope.
That wasn´t all.

This time out i bet even our own Brad will get a smile on his face. That helical bullet shape makes for some rather involved machining when a CASTING mold is on the agenda.




Hi Racing,
    Any modern 3 axis machine could make that mold. The hardest part is using a CAD/CAM system to make an image of the mold interior and then making a program to machine it.  Typically it's an enthusiast that will sneak these jobs in between the regular shop work that actually pay the bills.
Brad Potter, hardware junky.

Offline necessaryevil

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2019, 11:57:51 AM »
Welcome to the U.S. Postal Service. I ordered something once that shipped from China. It made it from China to New York in 24 hours. Stayed in NY for five days in quarantine. IIRC it took two days to go to Chicago, two more days to get to Atlanta, two more to get to mobile. One day to go from Mobile to Hattiesburg 50 miles from delivery. Sat in Hattiesburg for two days then went back to mobile in a day, back to Hattiesburg in a day and I got it the next day.  (u^ If I mail something from here to Atlanta. It will either go to Jackson or Memphis first. Neither of which are on the way to Atlanta.  ^y%

I ordered a red dot sight mount for my Glock 17 from Prague in the Czech Republic. It took DHL 25hrs to get it their depot in Malaga Spain via Germany, and Sevilla Spain. I can drive to the DHL depot in Malaga in 25 minutes from my house.

It took THREE DAYS for DHL to bring it to my door, I was NOT amused  (u^

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2019, 06:47:20 PM »
Hm.
So i got to cut a few sprue plates for the various molds,and indeed got to use them too. The ones cut for the Whitworth rifling works as intended,no argument.
The one handing me for paper patched and the other dressed to fit right out of the hole. Going to be REAL interesting trying them out as soon as weather changes for the better around here.

Then as you can see i got a hold of a couple of handgun molds too. Modified them to become more cap n ball friendly and..what can i say?
The one mold is a LEE 228gr HP and the other a Saeco 452,typical "Keith" bullet. The latter dialing in at a whopping 265 to 270 grains when out of pure lead.

Anyways.
What´s handing me issues is the new swaging die. It tosses boolits that either wants to "overflow" the internals OR come out short of filling. Trying to figure out what exact sizes slugs to shove in there...
If not,back to the drawing board.
DVC - 2018

Offline Omnivore

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Re: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2019, 09:21:21 PM »
Awesome project, Racing!

If the swaging die is mechanically sound, and its operation consistent, and you're getting overflow sometimes and lack of fill other times, then apparently the lead slugs going in are not of a consistent volume.  If the alloy is perfectly consistent, then all you need to do is weigh them.

Notice the number of "ifs" I put in there.

One way to regulate the volume is build another die which has a very small hole in the side, the volume of said die (not counting the side hole) being exactly right for your bullet.  That would be your "slug regulator" die.  It should be adjustable.  If every chunk of lead going in is a might heavy compared to your desired finished bullet, then the excess will squirt out the side hole.  As the newly regulated slug is forced out, the lead wire sticking out the side hole is sheared off, and thus you get (theoretically) perfectly consistent slugs to go into your swaging die (and a bunch of lead wire to be recycled).

Maybe it would in turn be possible to incorporate the regulation vent into the bullet swaging die itself. Thus, being sure to use slightly overweight slugs going into it, you'd have a self regulating swaging die.  That would require further experimentation; the side vent being too small and you may still get "overflow", and the vent being too big would not allow enough pressure buildup to fill out the die.  But then that issue would sort of apply to a dedicated regulation die too.

Anyway, I've done a bit of bullet swaging myself, with my own dies, and I've found that even well and properly cast slugs may have too much extreme spread in mass to swage very consistently.  Your lead slugs, before swaging, must be very consistent.  With either regulation system you should be able to get swaged bullets which rival the consistency of the best, modern factory match bullets.

Maybe you knew all of it already, but your last comment begged the above response.
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