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Author Topic: The holy grail,the icon,the myth,the legend. Whitworth  (Read 1113 times)

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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 03:17:14 AM »
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/793002787

You know,i´d jump on that for instance. However since a while back GB changed their policy why i can´t even write the man anymore. It ALL has to go through a third party,and a scope like that is old enough to be exempt any restrictions.
I´d say it´s a perfect fit for that Whitworth rifle...and is out of reach.

It annoys the living p*ss out of me.  >:(
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 04:53:00 PM »
At least got in contact with the seller,remains to dig someone up that´ll ship it.
No restrictions per se seeing its age,it´s just that a commercial business needs an export licens to export squat.
A private citizen is a different matter.

But seriously. Yeah. This thing´d do it on that Whitworth
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2018, 07:15:44 PM »
Don´t believe i´ve shown you the pics of the swaging die for the bullets for this gun?

CNC machining. Gotta love it.. {L*
DVC - 2018

Offline Hawg

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2018, 07:52:23 PM »
Cool  8)
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Offline Mad Dog Stafford

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2018, 08:56:12 AM »
WOW! Nice!
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Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2019, 06:01:22 PM »
To tell the truth i´ve lost all confidence in them HGSS shippers by now.
Yadda yadda yadda is all i hear and still no gun. Starting to arrive at the point where i get myself a roundtrip ticket for England to pick the damn thing up in person.

Anyways.

Bullet time,and swaging them at that.
The way this works is that i insert a slug/ingot into the die,insert the "top" punch-that holds the shape of the nose of the bullet,and then insert the "rammer" from the other side of the die. Insert the whole contraption into the shop press...and press away. As lead is soft out the other end comes..bullets!  {:(

At first i had hoped that cutting a much smaller "bottom" for a LEE 459/405 would do it. However them blocks index on that bottom plug,so i drilled a 2,5mm hole through the mold and handed it a pin.
Cast away! LOL
No dice though. Not enough material,so what to do? Looked over the parts bin and dug out the worst el-cheapo aluminium i could find..
Then trued it and drilled a 12,5mm hole in it on the lathe..then split it in half and installed a pair of index pins just to toss it back on the lathe to redrill that 12,5mm hole and that to a depth of 31mm.

Voila.
Now we´re getting somewhere. These pills come out a tad on the heavy side though at 560 grains..and to add insult to injury you can all see that ridge/step between the nose of the bullet and its body.
I guess the easiest way to handle this will be to chafe that into shape with a cutter on the lathe,just remembering to go REAL slow as we´re handling pure lead.

That said i believe we´re about in tune. Going to reference these bad boys for both length and weight vs the stock things and see where that takes me.

CNC machining though,gotta love it... (T^

What i CAN tell you though is that swaging bullets in this manner,manually,is rather slow. If i were to automate this process it´d be WAY faster than casting even but hey...i´m not in it to produce Whitworth slugs exactly.
This way though we DO end up with specific bullets with that fabled "twist" built in and see that twist is what makes most people shy away from trying to make these bullets.
Well.
Machining and so on takes time and time is money. So is actually making a CAD drawing but tell you what..anyone out there with an ORIGINAL Whitworth that wants to try this out,sending a CAD over the internet isn´t an issue.
Just hollar and we´ll take it from there. Be prepared though that the steels and dimensions involved are rather..on the hefty side,and needs to be. The pressures involved tells that we HAVE to make the die from high grade steel. Preferably so called tool room variety. This mainly to make sure that the die stays dimension intact over the long run.

Now.
For that damn rifle then...
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2019, 05:29:46 AM »
The eagle has landed.

Indeed a few things are missing,the ramrod and the globe front sight,but first impression is very good.

Will rip the thing apart and check more in depth during the day and get back to you guys on the matter,with pics of course.
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2019, 05:23:05 PM »
Alright boys.
I´m sitting here with tears in my eyes. Huh?
Yeah. In short,jackpot.

Going to chop this up in a number of posts,to make it simpler to follow the story here.

First five pics,how the lock came out of there.

Pic No6 is of the stock. The entire thing looked like that,which made my hopes of a decent stock diminish to say the least but...was i EVER wrong!

Pic No7. That there is the spring for the ramrod.

Pic No8. Every major part carries the guns serial. Ie;not screws but everything else.


DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2019, 05:29:04 PM »
Pic No1. Dirty. Like in a mess. Everywhere.
Yes. A small splinter missing from the top there but to tell the truth you don´t even notice as the gun is put back together.

Pic No2. Uhu. Someone´s been at it before me. Tailscrew wasn´t torqued down.

Pic No3. Under that surface rust it indeed says "Whitworth patent".

Pic No4. Proof marks. 52 in turn is caliber designation,what comes down to 45cal. Then,again,the serial of course.

Pic No5. Whitworth must have taken REAL pride in his new worlds first standardization. That thread there..the "feel" of it as you work it,you´d be REAL hard pressed to mimic that to this day. Amazing!

Pic No6 n 7. With the tailscrew out of there...seeing what bad shape the stock was in.. But was i ever wrong. Barrel simply looks like new within. That simple!
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2019, 05:35:18 PM »
Pic No1 n 2. The tailscrew. From the looks of it this wasn´t blued but case hardened. No matter,the thing came out squeeky after a good clean.

Pic No3. Barrel bands. Need to adress the threads of them. They are by no means shot or broken,just run to stiff to be normal. From what i´ve measured this i guess is the Whitworth thread equivalent for No8 UNC. Will have a look around what that translates to and see if i can´t dig a tap like that up. Shouldn´t be impossible..

Pic No4. The lock innards. The fit and finish is just mind blowing. LOOK at the fit of that mainspring vs its stop!  {:(  Indeed the locks "feel" is beyond words.

Pic No5,6 and 7. Business end of the lock. Safety can only be engaged in half cock.

Pic No8. Rear sight. This was covered in goo as well but cleaned up nicely as well. Even remains some of its original blueing.
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2019, 05:41:39 PM »
Pic No1. The one of two things missing is the front sight. Seems to have taken quite the blow sometime. Will fab a new one,taken from pics and what not,but for the time being i´m going to replace it with a regular Parker-Hale or whatever to get the gun shooting again asap.
The thing´s dovetailed in place so..

Pic No2. The trigger group. Nothing really special to see but the thing here is the fit of these pieces. Again..just mind blowing.


Pic No3. Sling swivel and a few screws. Again,they all cleaned up nicely.

Pic No4 n 5.
This is where it gets spooky. Guys,honest to god..ONLY thing used thus far is regular oven cleaner and fresh water. With all the goo off of there,this is what greeted me.
The thing..
Seriously. What i´ve got on my hands here is more or less an 1860 or 1861 made Whitworth in pristine condition with a serial just a tad away (above) known ones used during the civil war.

But...one more post guys..
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2019, 05:45:41 PM »
Guys.
This is where we´re at as of this writing. Just handed the old rifle some fresh linseed/terpentine oil,why it´s still in the wet.
No matter,it hands you a fairly good idea.

I´m sitting here pinching myself. This is ridiculous. Just mad. Insane.

I,to the letter,own an absolute pristine civil war era Whitworth rifle. What´s more i´m going to get to shoot the living crap out of it down the road. {:(

Somebody just shoot me.
DVC - 2018

Offline Hawg

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2019, 08:46:14 PM »
All I can say is you're one lucky SOB. {L* This calls for full blown congratulations. {?|
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2019, 06:39:02 AM »
Yep brother.
In this case i´d go as far as saying we´ve got ourselves a homerun on our hands. For real.
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: The holy grail,the legend. Whitworth
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2019, 06:44:48 AM »
Yes.
It IS coming along nicely and starting to be all it can be. No doubt.

Have had it for debate over at the British forum,and from the looks of it it might very well be that the barrel being "in the white" is how the rifle was delivered.
In other words that surface rust on there,i´ll just leave that be for now and tend to it as needed.

The Winchester scope in place and the entire rifle in order? Yup.
Well,that means SHOOTING TIME!!!! {_K

Time to see what this icon,myth,legend is made of! ...and i sure did yesterday  &j(

Now. Have in mind. This rifle is rather rare och two counts. As it turns out it´s one of the 5500 rifles made by the various Withworth Rifle Co Manchester. The remaining 8000+ rifles were under the later Enfiend 1863 contract.
In turn,it having led the life it has..it´s got a barrel that´s basically new within. So yeah. What we´ve got on our hands here is a Whitworth rifle to fire where we´ll fire something like it could have been 1865.
Mindblowing. For real. Mindblowing.
DVC - 2018