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Author Topic: Black MZ and Wads  (Read 239 times)

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Offline Brasso

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Black MZ and Wads
« on: November 03, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
First...thank you for adding me.
.
I havent shot BP Revolvers since 70s so am VERY rusty... well thats NOT a good word on here... lol
  I got Black MZ comin in mail but have pre-lubed wonder wads... NOW I read that you do NOT use lube at all with MZ....
is this true and are these wads that looked barely lubed at all except for a thin yellow stripe around edges... NOT good to use... or for occassional shooting of my Brass 1858 Pietta 44 cal... should i skip wads an go ball ON POWDER ...or do i need to find unlubed wads.  Also.... HOW MUCH MZ do i use to NOT destroy my Brass and Pin etc... as said..i only will shoot  this occassionally.. if i use the wonder felts...will it screwup the MZ.  I do know from on here to make sure I compress  the mz.  thanks very much... Ed








Offline Classanr

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 11:04:26 PM »
Hello Ed,

1. Brass frame, don't go much over 20 grains by volume.  Read on for better results.

2. MZ puts out much water.  Does not need lube.  However a dry-ish wad is OK considering you don't want empty space between powder and ball.  Len from Sweden has been shooting his genuine civil war Remmy with 10 grains Swiss and wads and copious lube.
Great shooting gun, I have fired it myself. Amazing how well a mere 10 grains well-packed will do.

Then he shot my stainless replica with 30 grains of Black MZ and a bit of lube (he insisted, so what the heck...). Ball didn't go all that much faster but the boom was louder.  When it came time to clean up, he was boiling and scrubbing and fussing etc. on his original.  We stuck mine under the cold water faucet then dried her off.  If he had not insisted on lube, mine would have been easier than that to clean.  Len was astonished, to say the least.

3. MZ LOVES to be packed as tight as you can.  Ram the powder (slam that rod down on the powder), then ram that wad even harder!  Push the ball in until it seats.  No need to ram the ball hard.  There is no such thing as over-ramming Black MZ.  Loose, Black MZ is a very very poor performer.  It is really intended for rifles with 100+gr loads.

4.  And, instead of measuring by volume, measure by weight when you want to get accuracy.  The problem? MZ is not a uniform grind.  So any two loads by volume will have different weights, which generates noticeably different amounts of gas in loads under 50 grains.  18 grains/weighed will give you approximately 20 grains volume.  If you weigh consistently 18 grains, the volume will vary but the performance will not.  This is not critical if you are shooting mostly for "just get the danged ball on the paper 30 ft downrange".  But once you move out to 25yds and further, a scale will tighten your groups.  Weigh at home.  Len and I use 10ml Centrifuge Tubes, Snap Cap, Plastic Tubes that are cheap.  They are about 16cents apiece and very convenient at the range.  They don't wear out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-10ml-Mini-centrifuge-tube-vial-clear-plastic-vials-container-snap-cap-AUS/253923744132?hash=item3b1f08d984:g:my4AAOSwMv5bbQJW:rk:1:pf:0

5. Hottest cap you can get onto the nipple.  I use #11mags Winchester caps from Walmart when they go on sale end of season $7.99/tin.  Difficult to press on, but always light off the load.

When you get satisfactory results, open a thread and report what you did and the results.

The real expert on Black MZ is Richard SSB73.  Do a search on "Black MZ" and you will find all kinds of great information posted by him.
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline drobs

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 11:34:44 PM »
Brasso,

Welcome to the forum.

I don't own a brass frame 1858 nor have I shot Black MZ so Caveat Emptor on some of the following.

I think you'll be fine with the Wonder Wads. I bought a bunch of them from DD4lifeusmc. I believe Wonder Wads are mostly dry lubed now.

I like using wads as I can load the chambers with powder and wad 1st, then load the ball on top. If you plan to shoot a lot - you might look into making your own wads. Here's my go at it from January of this year:
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php/topic,11514.0.html

I haven't shot with Black MZ yet but am real close to ordering 10lbs from Sportsman's Warehouse. Can't beat that price of under $10 for a pound. I've also read that it's comparable to FFg.

I have a shop in Springfield Missouri that carries Graf's and Goex at a reasonable price ($20 a lb) making ordering BP and substitute powders not really worth it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:13:23 AM by drobs »
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 11:25:27 AM »
Hi Brasso, welcome to the group. Black Mz is my goto powder. It's true that you don't need any lube with Black Mz. However, I always use a lubed wad between ball and powder to provide an extra measure of insurance against a chainfire. I have had extra cylinders loaded for months with minimal lube migration affecting the powder's performance. Black Mz is only second to real BP in ignition ease, produces as much smoke, and minimizes corrosion. Cleanup using Black Mz is a breeze. If you love your BP revolvers, you will love using Black Mz.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Capnball

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 07:00:36 AM »
Richard, that is good to know! I have never had any Black MZ and will get me a jug to try in my  &j(

Offline Brasso

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 10:42:53 AM »
Sorry i havent replied. ..was back in the VA hospital again.  anyway... thank you all for the valuable info... i do have felt lubed wads AND i have..forget name... yellow waxy lube disks for front that you smoosh around ball... so i wont use either.. i wil tey to find Dry felt to make my own Or tey the lubed wads i bought  to see.  i will only shoot this now and then.  I filed down my flask  spout to approx 25 gr vol..  but guess i need to grind it down more dor my Brass frame 1858.  i want my Brassy to last but i also dont want wimpy loads  haha....i know... oxymoron....  whay do you all think about the Wonder wad grease disks i mentioned. you all are fantastic.

Offline Brasso

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2018, 10:59:08 AM »
i forgot to mention....i will be... loading..firing..load...fire... cause at my gun club...you cant walk around with loaded firearms  so i am wondering as one of you said..  IF it IS  ok to use these lubed wads i bought since i will load and fire only.. but i still will look for felt somewhere to punch out my own.  thanks everyone

Offline Brasso

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 03:49:41 PM »
Well...tho some of you said my lubed wonder wads are ok with my MZ powder. . i wanted to TRY dry unlubed wads but can Not find any, so i bought felt chair leg  sliders...(they stick to bottom of chaor legs) and i used my punch an made some but they are NOT perfect circles..and...had to try to razor blade the adhesive aide off. ..they look like crap.
1.  WHERE can i find unlubed GOOD wads and
2. I have the Ox Yoke Winder Seals  for in front of chamber. 
Should i skip the Wonder Seals as well when i go DRY....  if..big IF... i can find unlubed wads.   thanks.

Offline Classanr

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 08:23:20 PM »
Not building a bridge here.
You have the ingredients.
MZ, Wonder Wads, balls, gun.
It is time you assemble the components.

You can load your cylinder(s) at home and bring them to the range off the gun.  Swap cylinders.
Even with one cylinder, once fired it is unloaded.  Remove from gun. Walk around with empty gun in holster, cylinder in hand or pocket or range box.

Or at the range you can always load just one chamber, cap and shoot it.
Do the same with next round.
By the third time you will want to load 'em all and go.

A little tip to the right when cocking will help prevent spent caps from falling between frame and cylinder.

You are shooting a mild load, so a one-hand hold would be a good experiment.

Go shoot it and enjoy!

Classanr
Jim Beam me, Scotty!  Life here is more intelligent than I.

Offline Brasso

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2018, 08:41:22 AM »
thanks..i will just use my wonder wads.... i cant stand soo many exceptions    haha.  thanks. 

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 09:14:15 AM »
Hi Brasso, this is were I buy my wads:

http://www.sageoutfitters.com/Muzzleloader.html

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Brasso

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 09:45:42 AM »
Richard... thank YOU... finally.....  i needed this.  you are awesome  my friend.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Black MZ and Wads
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2018, 10:58:44 AM »
Brasso  -  Many of us here order from Duro-Felt and punch out our own disks; much cheaper that way. 

http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
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