Author Topic: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP  (Read 851 times)

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Offline BlackpowderJim

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Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« on: August 04, 2018, 12:36:00 AM »
Any shooters out there try the .45 ACP Howell conversion in their 1858? I thought I ordered the Colt long, but got the ACP instead. Is it worth keeping?

BPJ

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 09:23:47 AM »
Any shooters out there try the .45 ACP Howell conversion in their 1858? I thought I ordered the Colt long, but got the ACP instead. Is it worth keeping?

BPJ

DO NOT FIRE JACKETED AMMO OUT OF IT!

personally I would have gone with 45colt since I already reload 45colt
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 09:34:30 AM »
Hi Jim, I would return it. The .45ACP chambers on the front of the case. Shooting BP will quickly gum up the cartridge seating. The .45 Colt is the way to go and only get a .45ACP latter as a curiosity. I have a spare .45ACP spare cylinder for my Colt SAA, but never use it.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline GrayFox

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2018, 02:02:46 PM »
If you plan on shooting BP you won't have much room for a charge.  GF

Offline BlackpowderJim

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2018, 06:39:31 PM »
Yeah, I was already predisposed to sending it back for the .45 Colt...now I will. Back to Old South Firearms with all celerity!!!! (k-

Offline mike116

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2018, 08:59:44 PM »
Good decision Jim.   45 acp in an 1858 is just not right.

Offline prof marvel

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 02:22:30 AM »
Ah My Dear Netizens.....

no, do not use jacketed hardball .45 ACP in  a Remmy!!!!
yes, since it headspaces on the mouth it will gum up fast with BP
no, it just ain;t quite right.....

but...

I got one.
along with a couple few several more than five .45 Colt conversion cylinders.

just because I built a really short snubby remmy and decided that lead 230gr smokeless loads would get that little more oomph.
and I was right!
it makes the perfect low velocity ( ~ 700-800 fps) smokelss snubnose single action !
very victorian!

yhs
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Offline necessaryevil

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 04:03:47 AM »
Ah My Dear Netizens.....

no, do not use jacketed hardball .45 ACP in  a Remmy!!!!
yes, since it headspaces on the mouth it will gum up fast with BP
no, it just ain;t quite right.....

but...

I got one.
along with a couple few several more than five .45 Colt conversion cylinders.

just because I built a really short snubby remmy and decided that lead 230gr smokeless loads would get that little more oomph.
and I was right!
it makes the perfect low velocity ( ~ 700-800 fps) smokelss snubnose single action !
very victorian!

yhs
prof marvel

My dear Professor,
If you reload according to my Lyman 49th edition manual the following should be just fine in a Remington ?

225gr #2 alloy  1.272" OAL suggested starting charge of 4.0gr of Alliant Bullseye, gives 680 fps with chamber pressure of 10100 C.U.P

Same bullet starting load of 6.2 gr of Hodgdon HS6 gives 664 fps and a chamber pressure of 8400 C.U.P.

The MAX load with 5.0gr of Bullseye gives a very healthy 815 fps and a chamber pressure of 14400 C.U.P, which is the LOWEST max charge chamber pressure listed in the manual.

I would love to get a hold of one of those conversion cylinders. Nearest place I can buy one is Switzerland, a bit of a drive from here and they want 500€ for them !
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 08:34:15 AM by necessaryevil »

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 05:02:48 AM »
Hi prof, I don't understand your logic for using .45ACP in a snubby. Both the .45 Colt and .45ACP use the same length cylinder. Also, there is a longer bullet jump for a .45ACP than the .45 Colt. Considering all the negatives for the .45ACP conversion cylinder in BP revolvers, the only advantage I can entertain is that it offers a conversion for those that have .45ACP reloading equipment, but don't reload .45 Colt.

IMO the .45ACP conversion cylinder is just the wrong tool for an 1858.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Online 45 Dragoon

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2018, 06:58:59 AM »
Actually, "bullet jump" happens where the cylinder ends and the barrel/forcing cone begins. The throats are bore size (or should be) and keep the bullets stable and in line with the bore of the barrel. This is the setup in all modern cylinders. "Free bore" is bore without rifling and has always been a topic as to its affect on accuracy in rifles/ long cylinders. My belief on the subject changed when I owned an 1871 open top (Uberti) chambered for 44 spl. It shot fine with specials and 44 Colt but the most accurate round that revolver shot was 44 Russian .  .  .  the shortest .  .  .  .  the one that had all that "no bore"!
  Likewise, my previous carry gun was an El Patron Comp which I fitted a 45 acp cyl to. The 45 acp was every bit as accurate as the 45C rounds (sometimes a little better)! So, my point is, in any particular revolver, you don't know until you " put it on paper " how well it performs with a particular round. The results may be surprising!!
  If you think you'll end up with both, go ahead and keep it and shoot smokless loads (acp is cheap!!) and use the cap cylinder/45C cyls for B.P.

Mike
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Offline Dave Shooter

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2018, 07:23:41 AM »
One advantage to .45 ACP is that free brass is easier to come by.  Square gun shooters sometimes just leave it on the ground...
 ;)

Offline Lord Woodsball

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2018, 06:32:43 PM »
Yeah, I was already predisposed to sending it back for the .45 Colt...now I will. Back to Old South Firearms with all celerity!!!! (k-





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« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 08:22:42 PM by Lord Woodsball »

Offline prof marvel

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 02:39:22 AM »
Let us consider the case length:
.45 Colt Case length   1.285 in (32.6 mm)
.45 ACP  Case length   .898 in (22.8 mm)

and their cousins:
.450 Adams (1868) Case length   .69 in (18 mm)
.455 Webly Mk1 (1891) Case length   0.886 (22.5mm)


firstly, for smokeless shooting with lead bullets, it gives me smaller case (like the .45 cowboy)
which is more efficient for smokeless, and safer from a reloading point of view. As our good
Necessary points out, with lead loads it is well within specs, and gives fair dinkum results!

secondly, ( As mike goon pointed out) since the case seals the cylinder from the back side, this gains me 0.387 inches
of additional useful bore-size chamber before we hit the barrel-cylinder gap, which does in fact add time for the expanding
gasses to provide just a tad more velocity.

lastly, since my severely cut-down remmy is a bit of an abomination in the first place, using a cartidge
very much like a rimless .455 Webley, or a Snubnose Webley RIC it takes a bit of the sting out...

Webley RIC 1868 cal .450 CF


George H. Daw British R.I.C. Revolver .450 Adams


or the 1880 ish webley mk1


I have plenty of histerically correct toys, this is just my little steampunky abomination   :-[



yhs
prof marvel
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 02:48:27 AM by prof marvel »
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Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2018, 08:06:38 PM »
I shoot 185 gr LRNFP .452 .45acp bullets in front of 20-30 gr (depending on target distance) T7 or BP  duplicating the MV of the original AND the newer/hotter .45acp round in my '58 Sheriffs model.
Both work perfectly at 25 and 50 yards respectively.
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Offline BlackpowderJim

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Re: Howell Conversion for 1858 in .45 ACP
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2018, 08:45:43 PM »
Capt. Marvel, I like the steampunk .45 snubby. Just the sort of belly gun James West would have carried.  (T^