Author Topic: Chassepot Mle 1866  (Read 2032 times)

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Offline Racing

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Chassepot Mle 1866
« on: April 24, 2018, 04:35:17 PM »


Ok. So it finally happend,i found me a Chassepot.
For those of you not in the loop this is an old French military rifle that was cleared for use back in 1866. What sets it apart,being a blackpowder rifle,is two things mainly.
First up,it´s a breech loader aaaaaand..not just any old breechloader. In fact where its sort of predecessor,the Dreyse rifle of then Prussia,was regarded as the last of the muskets the Chassepot has many times been called the first modern rifle.
Yes indeed,it is a bolt action rifle from back in 1866 produced "en masse" by not only the french but many other European countries as well.

Second up..it is what´s known as a "needle fire" gun.
The Dreyse is as well,and what this comes down to is that both use paper cartridges where a primer is "hidden" within the cartridge.
In the case of the Dreyse the primer is set at the base of the bullet,rendering that to fire the gun the needle has to be run through all that blackpowder....
While in the case of the Chassepot the primer resides where it does with a modern day n era cartridge,just with its flipside out!  {:(



For better for worse all i got to share at the moment is the sellers pictures and..they´re not all that. I know,but they at least give you an idea.

There´s LOADS to be read online on these needle fire guns. They were mainly produced here in Europe and one of the reasonings behind them was that in essence a Chassepot for instance is "sort of" a caseless ammo jobbie. The intent at least is that the backdraft of the bullet in combination with a sort of "scraper" rubber ring within the cartridge is supposed to swipe the bore clean after each shot.
Now..
I´ve never fired one but many owners claim this is wishful thinking and..keep that thought will you guys...



Right. The bolt n the breech. That coneshaped metal piece at the end of it,that´s where the needle protrudes as you let go of the sear via the trigger.
Then? How does the thing seal? In short,there´s a rubber seal/o-ring king of jobbie just behind that coneshaped metal deal there which expands and seals the chamber upon firing.

So? We´ve in other words first up got a needle that is inserted into that downright mayhem within the chamber and in turn seal said chamber with rubber?
Were they friggin NUTS?
No. No they were not. True is that the needle as well as seals are service items. They will,according to legend,just last that many rounds and done deal.
These parts are readily available,but then..some have made their own needles from stainless bike spokes...and the rubber seals from regular VVS parts (water seals for fossetts and what not)
In short,the spares needed to have a Chassepot running is..cheap.



Projectiles for the Chasse were also a sort of step towards modern such. With a weight of 385 grains in 45 caliber..they had an easy 90grains of BP behind that..u do the math.
The older Dreyse got nowhere near in performance. Battle sights of the Chasse tho are a tad optimistic at 1800 meters i believe.. ->i
But see...i plan to ride with that...bare with me..



The Chassepot is one of the few military rifles of the age that is claimed to actually have a reasonably good trigger setup. As to the truth of that,i guess we´ll see soon enough.
As any GOOD design the Chassepot contain rather few moving parts....

Now. 1866 right. Well,the exact same rifle was modified to 1874 specs when the time came rendering them centerfire cartridge guns.
The next revision was in 1880...to be followed by a revision in 1914... But the story doesn´t stop there. The Chassepot was considered an arm that good and that SIMPLE that the French kept ´em alright...but many other countries in Europe followed suite. Greece and what not,and this leaves us with a rifle design from the early 1860´s being used through world war II !!!!  {_K {_K

How´s THAT for a service life!  {:(



Yes. Of course they sport a bayonet. I didn´t get one,but let me say..bayonet? Nah. That thing is a damn sword! Long enough you could use it for a crutch need be!



Uhu. Cartouche if there ever was one.


Ok. So what´s the deal here J?
I´ll tell you what is. This is a rather heavy hitting 45 cal blackpowder rifle of at least decent design. Seing the Swedish firearms act a needle fire gun is as exempt as our beloved Remingtons.. Cool.
So what i have in mind here,what i wanna create,is a high powered semi long distance rifle. In short i wanna try and see what happens at 4oo to 800 meters.
Thus.
What i plan to do is lift the reciever and barrel out of there. No more barrel bands... and adapt that into a modern day n era stock for a Sako bolt action.
In turn equip the thing with 3-9 time glass...get rid of the bayonet lug and what not,clean the entire thing up inside out...

´N see here´s the drill.
These guns are strong as HELL. Buuuuuut..still blackpowder right. However..they use a cartridge per what us boys are used to.

Well. What if... What if we staple the these days available "pellets" until we reach 90+grains of volume....
Pellets are hollow right. We set an ever so small tad of grease into that hollow. Glue the bullet to the stack...and ditto for the primer the other end of said stack.
That my dear friends would be...completely caseless ammo.

Many use the US made offerings as far as bullets. Often then of more weight. My line of thinking here is that 45cal is a rather common caliber after all and..why not try and look something as contemporary up as possible? Boattail,gascheck..the works. The full 9 yards.

Hm. That much for now boys but rest assured that a Chassepot is something most other blackpowder rifles are not...modern to the design and thinking.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 06:11:02 AM by Racing »
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot mdle 1866
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 12:58:23 AM »
You might think that the amount of information online for this old needle fire gun would be limited...

Not so.
There´s actually rather ample material written on them,not only the Chassepot but needle fire guns in general,and as such..story is rather vivid and explicit for lack of better words.

At the time development of various "systems" was rather hectic and involved and as such needle fire guns was one route taken.

To put this into perspective the Chassepot alone was produced in numbers by the millions over the years before the swap for a centerfire cartridge,and that fact alone i guess tells a thing or two i guess.
But..needle fire was used for pistols,scatterguns and what not as well at this time in history,while the two most famous guns utilizing the needle fire principal was the Dreyse and the Chassepot.

To us Scandinavians these needle fire guns basically represent the pinacle of what´s available to us while staying permit exempt why it to us is even more valid-for lack of better words-to this day. Mark what i wrote above,the Chassepot is in general regarded as the first modern rifle. Works and fires as any other bolt action rifle out there.

At the time firearms development and design really changed on a day to day basis and several VERY imperative discoverys were made.
Many to this day for instance believe that true accuracy is something that evolved lately,and this is simply not so. The Witworth rifle with its hexagonal rifling,and ditto bullets,for instance was used with success at ranges inxs of 1800 yards back in 1860. Indeed this rifle was even part of the US civil war,albeit not by any appreciable numbers due to its cost.
The "Witworth system" was of British descend alright and weren´t limited to the Witworth rifles alone. Many an Enfield rifle was so equipped as well... Sir Witworth was imperative as far as the standardization that was a great part of the industrial revolution and we to this day run into his thread system for instance.

Not so the Chassepot though (heagonal rifling that is). None the less the Chassepot had sights marked for over 1000 meters,and as to how valid that is i guess we´ll find out soon enough.

Please be aware that this rifle was adopted by the French military forces back in 1866,just as the US civil war came to a halt,and was put through its paces together with Remington NMA and NMN (22 ooo of them according to legend) as the Franco/Preussian conflict became a reality in 1870.
Yes. The Chassepot and our beloved Remingtons fought side by side as many a Remington collected after the civil war was sold to France as the US civil war came to a halt.

So yup. One of the reasons we run into Remmys here in Europe by the numbers we do is partly due to French warfare.. &j(

My intent in this case then?
Or more so,my vision i guess. Well. To me it´s become sort of a sport to ride the jagged edge of what´s possible vs the Swedish firearms act. As a law abiding citizen i of course want to remain on the correct side of the fence,why these needle fire guns is as "modern" as it gets while doing so.
Seing that there´s no matter that no limitations as how to modify or work on such an exempt firearm. Compare the "snub" Remmy i´ve just put together.

The Chassepot fires a 45 caliber lead bullet of 385 or 405 grains of weight. The references here vary a bit with whom you ask. This bullet is propelled by a service load of 90 grains of blackpowder,and seing that i guess most will appreciate that the Chassepot is indeed a half heavy hitting rifle,no matter the distance.
Of course more recent development has handed us way more flatter shooting pills but..the Chassepot is to this day reported to be no slouch however.
So.
My idea here is to dwell on that concept and as such modify a Chassepot to become a true "sniper rifle" of sorts. Of course it won´t be capable of hitting a 10 ring at 1000 meters but i at least hope for a rifle with ample capacity out to 4oo-5oo meters.

To be able to wring out of the rifle what´s there to be found i´m going to lift the reciever and barrel out of there to have them installed into a way more "modern" rifle stock.
Friend has a stock laying around for a half new Sako bolt action,and my idea here is to use this to the best of my advantage and make as much of a deal possible to "bed" the barrel as needed.
Stock the barrel is retained per old musket standards,barrel rings and the whole 9 yards,and this i will make away with.

In turn the barrel sports a bayonet lug and as i have no use of that what so ever, and a barrel "left alone" as much as possible is always a good thing,i reason as such that this will be removed.


(Image borrowed online)

The stock bayonet is friggin half a sword. Altho impressive..no need for it.

So.
I expect the install of the reciever and barrel will take a while to make perfect. Sako stock is out of wood btw,which of course facilitates the install a bit.
That done i need to decide on HOW much i will let myself alter the existing reciever and barrel. As i was taught at one time for ranges up to 100 meters the most effective way of setting a rifle up is as a "scout" such.
This brings the install of red dot sights of *2 enhancement rather far out on the reciever. This time out though we´re talking a whole different ballgame why the optics i´m going to install will be more so of classic design.
Ie;i expect this rifle to come out looking like most heavy caliber bolt action hunting rifles all said and done.

Now. What i´m trying to find out at the moment is how the breech and reciever as a whole was designed. How strong it is. No matter the materials involved are approx 150yrs old why stress and what not is imperative.
That said what i HAVE found out thus far is that the Chassepot breech and surrounding is plenty strong,i´m still however uncertain as to if the breech was designed in such a manner that it´ll handle smokeless.

No. No,i´m NOT into trying this rifle out with smokeless powder. HELL NO even. So? Then why even bother? Well,it´s been said that the add of an ever so slight amount of reeeeeeally slow burning shotgun powder makes for less blackpowder fouling.
So what i want to figure out is a few different things here...

The Chassepot can no doubt be regarded as a caseless ammo gun. The original design was that the firing of the cartridge,the backdraft developed was to rid the barrel of all remains of the paper cartridge used. To the point where it´s been claimed that a half thin rubber "gasket" was used at the absolute rear of the cartridge,with the intent of being a "broom".
There´s...rather much to be read on the subject and i´m FAR from done reading up.

FWIW the Chassepot was indeed regarded as the first modern rifle and as such much development was done that came into effect later on in time.
In fact there was even magazine equipped experimental versions of it. Making this possible i guess was a result of how compact the "cartridge" was packed. That paper tears easy is no news..but compact such cartridges are no doubt rather stiff/hard.
In making the cartridges for the Chassepot you REALLY compress the charge,and you do so with a wooden dowel inserted into the cartridge,which in turn is supported by a wooden block or similar.
In other words the making of a Chassepot cartridge,no matter out of paper,is a rather far cry from how we make paper cartridges for our Remmys.

However.
In recent years blackpowder substitutes has come to be offered as pellets. Sorry to say though i´m yet to know who imports that stuff into Sweden.
My thinking here,IF possible,being the making of completely caseless ammo. These pellets are available in 30 grain pills and 3 of such would make for 90 grains,which is what the service load for a Chassepot came down to. The rifle has been reported to take MASSIVELY larger doses of blackpowder however.
But be that as it may what i have in mind,if possible,is to glue three such pellets together and in turn glue a bullet to the top of this stack.
Bullet of course then sized and lubed.. Which leaves us with the percussion cap. Stock these are installed "inside out" in a Chassepot cartridge.
To ensure 100% ignition many that make their own Chassepot cartridges therefore fill these caps up with fine grain blackpowder. A few grains...
I however see it as such that no matter which way we install a cap to this imaginary (at least yet  :) ) cartridge the imperative question i see is..why.?
There´s been loads of reasons claimed for the need for this very minor amount of finely granulated powder...but i have a REAL hard time taking to heart why it would be needed.
Blackpowder is from a relative point of view very easy to ignite why... Hm.

But. If i can make a cartridge like this into a reality remains the subject of fouling. Sure..a "sniper rifle" isn´t about rate of fire exactly but from what it seems most that shoot their Chassepot carry a swab to clear the "chamber" (which it in reality is not) from fouling AND debris.
Enter my reasoning,or validation,of adding a few grains of smokeless. It has many a time been claimed that the ever so slight add of very minor amounts of smokeless will make a blackpowder round burn WAY more clean then when just using pure blackpowder,or substitutes.
However. This is hearsay ONLY so far why i also try my best at the moment figuring out how much trutht here IS to this hearsay.

Ditto really for the substitutes. T7 for instance is claimed to run way cleaner then most blackpowders and substitutes. That it carries a different burn rate i guess we can agree on.
Actual speed of the burn though... Well...
When i picked the actual rifle up,the one i bought per above,i was determined to get myself the rifle version of the Chassepot ONLY.
There´s several versions of the gun,where for instance the carbine version is rather common. But..this to become "medium range" rifle is mainly about getting all we can from the given platform why the "true" rifle version was the only option on the agenda as far as my choice.
Thus,we´ve got barrel length enough to cater no matter,why the actual choice of propellant will mainly be a matter of accuracy. Not burn rate.
If that brings that i´ll end up with simple and cheap Wano blackpowder of 85 grains and 5 grains of smokeless,see above,if that is what sets the mark..so be it.

None the less,one thing at a time. First up the rifle needs to show up and at that point i guess it´s time to take inventory of what i´ve got to play with here.
The Sako stock and a 3-9 times glass are given thus far. Rest of it? We´ll see i guess.

Let it be known that the Chassepot rifles were normally delivered "in the white". Ie;sans any rust inhibits what so ever. As much as i can appreciate the looks of bare steel...nah.
Barrel of course will see the entire 9 yards before screwing it back to the reciever and the reciever in turn will get all the attention it could ever desire as well.

By the way. For our US board members these Chassepot rifles are to be found in the US too. I´ve seen them pop up at various auctions on occasion. So...getting a Chassepot of your own the other side of the Atlantic is certainly doable.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 01:11:24 AM by Racing »
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 06:12:04 AM »
Oh!
´N for the sake of argument. The stock open sights are set to a maximum of 1600 meters.
Cheers!!   {:( {:( )L$
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Offline prof marvel

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 04:01:33 PM »
Greetings My Good Racing -

great aquisition and a fine project!

The Bolt Action Chassy's  aka "Needle Guns " were known to the mountain men over here, but the consensus at the time was that the firing pins would erode away rather quickly for their tastes, and thus the fellows interested in cutting edge technology
prior to brass cartridges tended to favor the Sharps Percussion Paper Cutter Breechloader.

With 30 grain pellets glued together, modern stainless firing pins, and high temp rubber O rings you should do well -
this will literally be a 45-90 !

with the right bullet and that awesome hexagonal rifling I believe you should see good groups out to 800-1000 yards,
which is what a good Sharps can do with a proper tang mounted peep sight.

If you mount the scope forward of the breech you should have little problems with gass blow-by.... FYI on my .54 sharps, even with  all the tweaks and mods, I got a burn line on my Fedora hat brim , and it blew my buddy's ball-cap right off his head, thus I have stuck with the tang-mount peep.

A pinch of 4-F BP in the percussion cap would be advisable for a 777 booster, but before you try a "smokeless primer kicker" I
recommend reviewing the doco from the old Target Shooters who used such "tiny duplex loads" . I will see what I can stir up on the topic.

If you can get them, you might instead consider "209 Shotshell" primers.  They are much hotter than regular percussion caps or rifle primers, and even tho they look quite large, the size is due to a "shroud" ...


I alos might recommend  making some sort of combustible glue, and consider coating the complete "cartridge" with some flammable water-resistant stuff ... perhaps alcohol based shellac?

yhs
prof marvel
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 05:04:44 AM »
45-90.
Hm.
Never thought of it that way but of course you´re right. Then again,the rifle in Q is reported to have an insanely strong breech and has been exposed to inxs of 150grains on occasion legend has it. (As in loaded such to shoot the thing,not to test strength).

As is i´m debating with myself how to improve on the locking and what not. In turn,the OEM solution for a paper cartridge isn´t an issue IF we can get the entity of such cartridge to leave the barrel upon firing.
From what i´ve understood very few add that rubber disc to their cartridges,and this is said to be the "broom" of the cartridge.. We´ll have to try i guess?

Interesting gun to say the least.

Yes. Making firing pins out of stainless bike spokes seems a good idea. Ditto for the "umbrella" that resides at the absolute front of the bolt and is the part that excerts pressure on the rubber seal.
I doubt that the design as such is the end of all ills seing how old it is...
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 05:23:30 PM »
Now,this is a tad off topic and i´m fully aware of that...

Rifle is in the mail,as the saying goes. Sent from Marseille up here and... This at the tune of 25 Euros.

25 friggin Euros to have that rifle sent through half of Europe. Hell,if i were to ship one of my amplifiers at approx 10kg them 25 Euros wouldn´t even cope to have the thing sent half way to Denmark,which would be 200km.

..and in this case we´re talking economy shipping of course but that said.. 25 Euros. That´s DAMN cheap lads!
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 04:14:10 AM »
Well,if french Collismo is correct (french post) there´s supposed to be a Chassepot to pick up at my local outlet.

Issue is that for some reason they don´t provide the intl tracking No meaning i have NO IDEA where the gun is at.
Oh..the joy  ^y%
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 04:48:07 AM »
....aaaaaaaaaaaaaand again,leave it to the Swedish post to F this up.
Saturday and the package is still "in transit" from a place approx 10km from where i live and have been...since thursday.

Well. Whatever.
Meanwhile i bought me another one.









This time out,from what i´ve understood,a marine version. Thus it is painted black,paint i suppose to keep the otherwise "white" Chassepot rifles from rusting.
Or at least,that´s what i´ve been told. So this one sports a tatooed "anchor" to the butt of it...

Then,i know i´m being offensive in church and the full 9 yrds but...



These are at least half cheap at the moment. The GRS sporter/varmint. Point being that they are about as adjustable as a stock will ever be and then at a rate that is reasonable at least,from an economical POW.



...aaaaaaaaaand in turn... A Walther 8-32*56....
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 04:24:52 AM »
You´ll have to excuse my language here,but this is turning into a god damn farse.

"Postnord" does it again. Leave it to these IDIOTS to fumble anything outta sight. Cause...they WILL.

This is a package containing a large caliber bolt action rifle. No matter how we regard it.

It´s been missing for the better part of 2 weeks why i FINALLY get help from a "tracking specialist" at Postnord that hands me the CORRECT tracking No wednesday past.
I am thus promised delivery of the rifle at the latest wednesday after 16.00 hrs.

Well. Not so. So a new deadline is set,which is just about now actually. Noon friday.

However. Still no rifle. So i call these idiots up again and lo n behold...ONCE AGAIN they have NO f-in idea where the package is at.
AFTER having marked the package for special delivery due to it being delayed AND its contents.

So here i am ATM. On the phone waiting...for their customer service to reply. Where i live we´re about a million + people,the town that is,and i´m now HELLBENT on getting to know where this damn rifle is at and i will go pick ut up,wherever,within the large Goth town area.
Enough of their bullshit. Just hand me a CLEAR answer on where the damn thing is at and i´ll take it from there.

This is a farse by now and the worst thing is that they behave like this like...ALFRIGGINWAYS! Remember last christmas? When they had NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER where the package containing a couple of Remington 1858´s was at.

I wouldn´t trust thes idiots with a ramrod even.

No matter. The GRS stock is to pick up at least.

DAMN this has me pissed now! Enough is enough already! Friggin morons
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Offline valforgettaboutit

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2018, 11:32:48 AM »
Racing,

Sorry to hear about the postal issues but the rifles do look great. At first look at the bolt I thought you had picked up a Lebel. I'm guessing that particular shape/design was popular enough with the French military to stick with it for the Lebel. It's a real unique and cool look didn't hang around afterwards (since the Berthier and MAS 36 both had bent bolt handles and altogether different designs)

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2018, 01:52:08 PM »
Yeah,on that..dunno if i get to keep the handle though.

The new stock i have in mind coupled with the glass might put a halt to that.

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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 12:54:16 AM »
...aaaaaaaaand the rifle is still "out there" somewhere.

This has turned into a god damn farse,and it´s always like this when the Swedish national post is involved. It´s just beyond critisism really. Their street rep is below the tarmac,they can to the letter F anything up. Really.

After having been sent on a wild goose chase around town to pick the rifle up yesterday i guess you can imagine that after spending all in all 3hrs in a car to have this done i was..less than patient when calling their "customer service" up today.

...aaaaand they kept with their bullshit why i simply stated enough already. See,they had "started an investigation" as far as this..like i give a crap.

Ergo.
This is since today a matter for the police. We are talking a high power rifle on the lose here which around these parts is a pretty big deal.
I don´t care anymore. I want my god damn rifle and they had better just fork that over. As for the police,well that remains to be seen what that brings.
That this,by Swedish standards,is a big deal though is beyond reason.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 06:32:58 PM by Racing »
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Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 06:54:23 PM »
Wow.
Right. Where to start?

I filed a complaint with the cops right...and imagine that,three hrs later i had a Chassepot in my hands! Magic!!
That tho is behind us so let´s focus on what´s WAY better.

I´ll start by stating that IF you´re into these "the last breath before we all went brass" guns,GET a Chassepot. That simple.





Blackpowder. What can i say? This is the rifle version right and as such that barrel..sort of reaches around the block. In short this is one rather long rifle no doubt.

As you start to pick it apart though,or..at least i did,one gets impressed by how thought through this piece is. The simplicity with which it´s built and..to the point. In essence you need TWO tools to take a Chass apart.
A screwdriver and a 9mm metric wrench. That´s it.



So. This is what´s it´s all about. The rather,for a bolt action rifle,different bolt.
That black thingy out there on the right flank is the rubber obturator. No idea how old this one is but it´s hard as a rock. Brittle? Nah,not really. Just bone dead stiff. IOW..not usable any more.



This rifle made back in 1868 has sights marked to 1200 meters. Easy. You work the thing by lifting the "ladder" either to the left or right for 100m vs 200m..and then the ladder.





..n i´ll tell you what´s more. The French certainly must have liked their punches!!  {:(



Yep. There´s not one metal part (even the stock actually) that lacks the weapon in case numbers and so on. Even the barrel bands,the ramrod aso..everything in sight.



If there´s one word...simplicity. That there is of course the trigger and it´s return spring.



Of course adjustable and..numbered too.



A single shot right. So how this works is that you cock the piece first and then lift the bolt..with the action fully open you insert a cartridge,and close the bolt.
The bolt registers on the rectangular piece of steel that holds the actual bolt handle,and that´s it. In other words one lug and one lug only.
Wear?
Nope. None. So. That "umbrella" there up front has the obturator behind it right. You flick a round off and what happens is that that umbrella there sees the chamber pressure and moves backwards...and thus expand the rubber obturator which effectively seals the chamber.
Simple yet effective.

Be adviced that this,in it´s basic and stock form,is a 45-90 rifle. In other words no slouch exactly which of course puts strain on that piece of rubber,which indeed needs to be replaced as routine service.

So. The stock pill weighs in at 385 grains right. Not really a heavy weight for a 45 cal rifle,which in turn show as far as terminal speed.
Hm.



Yep. Stiff as a door nail. Period.



Cell phone cams,what can i say? Shoved a bore light in the other end and although i canted the entire barrel..still to much reflections.
No matter though cause the story´s simple. Bore looks like it´s new.



After a first clean and some oil.




Well.
Enter what´s to come.



As you can see the difference in stock is like night and day but regardless..that Chassepot barrel and breech will fit with a tad of work invested.
Hm.
What i NEED to do though is install a recoil lug. That just HAS to be done. But..as i´m unsure at the moment if the rifle in case to hit that GRS stock is this one or the one inbound...i´ll just cool down until all the chips are in.

But this much should be known though. The Chassepot? I mean,hello! This is a 150yr old breech loader and..damn... {:(
Impressed.
Really really impressed and if ANYTHING i´m just even more convinced to turn this thing into a heavy hitting single shot sniper boom stick.
DVC - 2018

Offline Racing

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 06:08:05 AM »


The absolute tip of the stock needle was broken right. The length of the stocker is to be 73,5mm and..this one dialed in like a mill to short.
Gave that some thought,as far as what is readily available,cheap and will fit...and of course. TIG electrodes. 1.6mm worth,and the damn thing fits like a glove. I just took the MIG welder to the tip of the electrode and when done ground the weld blob to 3mm diameter on the bench grinder.



Here in turn installed. TOAL of 74mm+,in short there´s a bit of margin to work with.

I then took to focusing on bolt freeplay,which i found excessive. I simply drilled into the bottom of the breech/cylinder and tapped M5..then a pair of grubscrews cut down and atop those small "pucks" of JM7 bearing bronze. Problem solved,and by the use of screws tension is very easily adjusted for all eternity.

Ditto for the "umbrella" where the needle protrudes. Stock it´s held in place by one mere screw and what´s more the "umbrella" is supposed to be floating. Ie;that screw should bottom out WITHOUT the umbrella being locked down as the umbrellas movement in it´s cylinder (the bolt) is what makes for the rubber seals expansion.
As cylinder pressure rises this exerts pressure on the umbrella forcing it rearwards,which puts pressure on the rubber,making it expand to seal the camber.

Now. This i guess could have been handled by simply adding material to the "bearing surface" of the umbrella where it´s installed into the bolt but...i took the easy route and simply drilled and tapped for a screw 180deg apart from the stocker. Thereby being able to balance the umbrella straight in its path.
Work too i guess.



Then that dreadful amount of creep in the trigger. I simply drilled and tapped for an M4 into the trigger/sear return spring. Crude,simple and works very very well.
Now it´s a breeze setting this to be a "hair trigger".
For those reading this figuring that "Hey! Neat! I´ll do that too!"..drilling into that spring steel..let´s just say that regular drill bits are out.
In turn tapping the hole HAS to be done with cutting compound added or the tap  WILL seize and break.
DVC - 2018

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Re: Chassepot Mle 1866
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2018, 05:50:59 AM »


That rubber seal setup got me thinking. As much as i understand the physics and reasoning behind it the rifle i intend to mod into a medium distance gun,well..

So i took to turning a "gauger" for the hole drilled into the bolt that holds the stock "umbrella" and rubber seal.



Yep. Working on old school guns we need old school tools.. ;) Nah,on a more serious note it seems these guns were manufactured with fractional dimensions.



The space called "chambre" in the original drawings turned out to be less then round,and what´s more conical to the shape. I guess that stems from the fact of using an expanding piece of rubber to seal the chamber off.
My idea though is to turn a "piston" of sorts (at this point just out of aluminium to check dimensions and functionality) that sports a couple of piston ring seals.
This to ensure full seal and in turn route soot elsewhere. The stock "umbrella" axle,where the rubber rides,has a tendancy to collect soot you won´t believe...

The needle in turn. Yeah. My idea here is for a piston right and to drill most of that piston larger then needle diameter. Then take a multibladed cutter to the nose of said piston and countersink a hole,which i´ll tap.

Then fab a "nut" of sorts with the appropriate thread. This´ll sport that 1,6mm hole..and as you bolt that thing down vs the piston you do so with a rubber gasket in between.
Ie,that gasket will work as a seal for the needle,of course precision being key here.

What i hope for is a seal of greater accuracy and a needle protrusion hole as well as piston seals that will keep soot buildup at bay.
DVC - 2018