Author Topic: Public Ranges  (Read 1963 times)

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Offline valforgettaboutit

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 11:09:15 AM »
My old "free-to-use" public range in VA was put there by the Park Service. I've had good and bad experiences there but mostly good, nothing to keep me from going back. They did have a trash problem there but locals formed a "friends of the range" type group and cleaned up and freshened up the area about once a month, I used to donate to them as a thanks.

Worst I've seen are the morons throwing clay pigeons at an area where the berm isn't nearly high enough for that, but after reminding them that VA State Police use the range regularly they put it away. It's usually just some nice people sighting in rifles or doing some plinking.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 12:02:11 PM »
Quote
Worst I've seen are the morons throwing clay pigeons at an area where the berm isn't nearly high enough for that.

I know of two different trap ranges in WA State where you're shooting directly toward town, which is just a few hundred yards away, with no berms.  The rule is #6 or smaller shot, which has a very short range.  It's just not a problem.  Skipping rifle bullets off the ground in front of a berm is the real danger, or doing the Hollywood pistol handling, where you point your pistol straight up into the air and then bring it down onto the target while cocked.  If you're doing that, and I know many of you are, then you'd best re-think it.  It serves no useful purpose and is utterly stupid and dangerous.  If you think about the required sight picture, bringing the pistol UP onto the target would make more sense, but what is taught by the good instructor is to stab the pistol straight out in front of you, pointed onto the target as soon as practicable.

"Doubling" with a semi-auto is another danger.  That happens when you've developed a habit of pre-tensioning the trigger between shots.  When the rifle or pistol is in recoil it is often pointed up over the berm, and if you pre-tension the trigger just a little too hard, an unintended (negligent) shot goes over the berm and into the wild blue.  Same can happen with a heavy-recoiling double action revolver if the shooter isn't handling it right-- as the gun comes up in recoil, the trigger finger has reflexively come off of it, allowing reset, and the further upward motion of the gun forces the trigger into the trigger finger, firing the gun in high recoil.  People have even shot themselves in the head doing that.  So when handing a hard-kicking DA revolver to a newbie, never have two adjacent chambers loaded.  I suppose a similar problem could occur with a semi-auto.

Then there is the dropped gun, which is far more likely to fire when you try to catch it, than it is if you just let it fall.  Actually there are more ways to negligently fire a gun than one can imagine.

The "cook-off" is another good one.  That's when you've mag-dumped multiple times and over-heated your semi-auto barrel, then you decided you need to go and reset targets, so you leave your smoking-hot rifle on the bench, pointed down range with a round in the chamber.  While you're down range doing whatever you're doing, that round you left in the chamber cooks off, shooting at you with no one at the controls.  That's why a lot of machine-guns fire from an open bolt.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Len

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 12:37:20 PM »
Quoting Omnivore:
".... or doing the Hollywood pistol handling, where you point your pistol straight up into the air and then bring it down onto the target while cocked ......"

According to the laws of physics, a bullet fired into the air will come back down at approx the same velocity as fired (minus some drag)

Offline G Dog

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2018, 07:26:50 PM »
Quoting Omnivore:
According to the laws of physics, a bullet fired into the air will come back down at approx the same velocity as fired (minus some drag)

Galileo got somewhat differing results in his experiments dropping balls over at the Leaning Tower of  (pepperoni) Pizza .   


///     ///     ///

I'm not much for ranges but I have occasionally used this one in Lake County, CA.  Weekday early mornings are a good time to hit it cause no one else is there. It's in the nature of the proverbial clean-well-lighted-place but definitely no substitute for being out on one's own in the boonies.  I have some property on that mountain in the background which is as good an excuse as any to drive over to the area. I prefer to hike into the trees to a couple of clearings of which I know.  There are even some chest high flat rocks for 'bench shooting', if that happens to be on the agenda. 

Anyway, too many amateur trigger fingers in proximity makes me itch and hearing fire causes me to what to return it, which of course in that context would never do at all. 


« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 07:38:31 PM by G Dog »
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2018, 12:18:18 AM »
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According to the laws of physics, a bullet fired into the air will come back down at approx the same velocity as fired (minus some drag)

True, but going from straight up to level, you're sweeping through approximately ninety degrees, is the point, and much of that ninety degree sweep is pointing in bad places, often with the gun cocked and the finger on the trigger.  I've seen several people do that.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline valforgettaboutit

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2018, 11:29:37 AM »
Quote
Worst I've seen are the morons throwing clay pigeons at an area where the berm isn't nearly high enough for that.

I know of two different trap ranges in WA State where you're shooting directly toward town, which is just a few hundred yards away, with no berms.  The rule is #6 or smaller shot, which has a very short range.

If everyone was using #6 or smaller you're right it wouldn't be an issue, but since there's no RO or supervisor most of the time at the range, the Park Service banned skeet and trap shooting there. They have a range about 30 min away that has an Range Officer manned trap station.

As for verticle shot velocity I found an interesting read https://forensicoutreach.com/library/the-falling-bullet-myths-legends-and-terminal-velocity/ . Basically a perfectly verticle shot will lose velocity on the return trip due to drag and tumbling and will impact with a lot less force; however if its angled just enough for the bullet to make an arc, it will travel farther and retain much more velocity for it's eventual impact.

Neat stuff.

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 12:53:15 AM »
Private, unsupervised range here........4 different covered multi-station ranges, IDPA range, & several old style "bay ranges" for "getting away from it all"

membership is reasonable, and the electronic gate & camera system keep out non members/guests.....and may not enforce good behavior, but sure seems to help people remember to be safe.

our sign says plainly that gross safety violations will be reported to the Sheriffs Dept.
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Offline drobs

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 07:11:16 AM »
I mostly shoot on my own backyard range. However, once I'm back in the US permanently, I'd like join a couple shooting clubs just for the competition. 

Missouri Department of Conservation has some decent free unstaffed shooting ranges.
https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/find/places/mdc-ranges
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Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2018, 10:19:13 PM »
went out Saturday morning and had the range to myself for 4 solid hours because although I went early, it was already hot & humid by 7:am.

by the time I left it was so unbearably hot that I could hardly breathe......sweat dripping from my brow and my shirt soaked.

good thing I wore my kilt or i'd have been REALLY uncomfortable...:D
Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner.....
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !

Offline Capnball

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2018, 06:27:02 AM »
Len, you are way off re: Laws of Physics! Valforgettaboutit has a good understanding of what actually happens. My former career in aviation taught me about stuff leaving Earth and stuff that returns rapidly with loss of power, and the speed is way reduced comparatively speaking. No offence, but incorrect information needs to be refuted. I think you might be thinking "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". That is not the theory that governs items falling back to Earth. It is the force of Gravity 29.92 Mbm that controls the decent.

Offline Len

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2018, 06:58:48 AM »
An item in free fall will reach about 200 kilometers an hour before the gravity will be balanced by the drag. That speed is about the speed of a BP ball.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2018, 04:52:03 PM »
200 kilometers per hour is only 182 feet/sec.

At 850 ft/sec (a fairly standard muzzle velocity for our guns) the ball would be going 933 kilometers per hour.

I use this handy calculator for conversions:

https://www.calculateme.com/Speed/


If the Battle of Waterloo had come a few years earlier we could have skipped the whole metric thing and just used good ol' standard 'Merican measures (like the Lord intended).

A little joke here:  Uncle Sam (a gentleman not necessarily noted for his humility) once said "there are two types of countries in this world -  those that use the metric system and those that have been to the moon."    ;) 

Len, I'm just funnin' at a little here, that's all.    (T^




"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".   
                                        Ephesians 6:12  (KJV)

Offline Len

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Re: Public Ranges
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2018, 03:36:04 AM »
Thanks for the laugh! You got a point