1858 remington forum

Author Topic: Swaged HB bullets from round balls  (Read 1292 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mazo kid

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6298
Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« on: February 13, 2018, 12:38:00 PM »
Some time ago on another forum (I think CastBoolits) a guy was offering to swage HB round balls if you sent him the RBs. I took him up on the offer and sent a bunch to him. When they arrived here I punched out some lube discs to go with them. Since I wasn't reloading anything soon, I set them aside and forgot about them. This is what they look like:

Offline Omnivore

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2510
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 01:20:29 PM »
I believe I saw that also, on CastBoolits, in their swaging forum section.  As I recall he's starting with a 50 cal round ball so that would make them approximately 180 grains.  It's a neat idea, not altogether unlike the Buffalo Bullets BallEtt.

So, two questions.  They don't appear to be tapered or heeled, so how do they load in a percussion revolver?  By the looks of it, you'd want to "heel" them in a Lyman type sizer.  And what is their major diameter?

Also; turn them around and you have a "flying ash can" type hollowpoint.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2510
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 02:43:59 PM »
In general, swaging bullets for these guns, starting with commercial round ball, is a solid idea.  The round balls will have a consistent weight, and soft lead would swage as easily as can be.  The process pretty well eliminates the use of lube grooves (although it would not be impossible, it would require some extra engineering and precision machining of a die with movable parts) there are still some good designs that could be used.  The only other drawback is you're buying each bullet and then making it yourself, so your cost of lead will be pretty high compared to buying foundry lead or obtaining scrap.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Mad Dog Stafford

  • The Forum Drunk!
  • Administrator
  • No Life Whatsoever!
  • *****
  • Posts: 23960
  • And away I go! What? Me worry? Nay!!!
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 04:56:33 AM »
Those look neat.  (T^
Tombstone(not the pizza kind)
Heaven didn't want me and Hell was afraid I'll take over!

Offline mazo kid

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6298
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 02:45:05 PM »
I got these primarily for plinking with my conversion revolvers and rifles. Yeah, they would be tough to load in a C&B cylinder.

Offline Gillamax77

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • American by birth, Texan by the grace of GOD
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2018, 08:24:07 AM »
MK
What size balls did you send him? 44 cal or larger? Those look neat and just might be what I am looking for. Let us know more. Working with OMNI right now on some ideas.  Do you remember who it was you sent the balls to? Just curious and I do believe you need a heel to load easily. I am extremely interested in those.
 (^h
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 10:00:16 AM by Gillamax77 »
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when your stupid." John Wayne

Marine Corps League #1452 Ellis County Texas
NRA Life Member since 1988
Knights of Columbus 3rd Degree

Offline mazo kid

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6298
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 02:40:28 PM »
It's been a while since I got these, but I believe I sent some 454 round balls. I'm not sure if I have the contact info, but will look soon.

Offline Omnivore

  • Ultimate Forum Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2510
Re: Swaged HB bullets from round balls
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 06:10:39 PM »
Quote
Just curious and I do believe you need a heel to load easily.

Absolutely, either a heel or a tapered base is a requirement for loading in a percussion revolver.  Those don't look to have a heel, but they might have a tapered base which wouldn't necessarily show in the photo.  Without any such, the bullet will be a bitch to load.

I can tell you from experience that such a deep hollow base in unnecessary, or at least it is unnecessary when using moderate to full charges of powder.  When looking at recovered cast bullets with plain bases, heeled or tapered, the bullets come out with full fill-out of the base into the rifling.  But maybe the issue at hand is the speed at which that obturation takes place.

I did get a noteable and repeatable increase in velocity with the semi-hollow base, 180 grain "Ball-Ets" from Buffalo Bullets, back when they still made them, as compared to round ball.  So Maybe that semi-hollow base just made the inevitable obturation take place sooner in the firing sequence, making a better seal?  Just a theory at this point.  Originally I had attributed the higher velocity to the mass alone, inturn resulting in a more efficient burn of the powder.  So it went like this;

140 grain ball velocity; lower
180 Buffalo velocity; higher
200 grain Lee Bullet; lower

Compared to those deep hollow bases in the photo, the Buffalo semi-hollow base was FAR shallower.  Did the semi-hollow base make the difference, or was it that a 180 grain slug's mass, all by itself, made for a spike (a sweet spot) in powder efficiency, compared to lower or higher masses?  We'd have to repeat the circumstances using different 180 grain bullet designs, or other bullet weights in plain verses semi or full hollow bases.

Take those bullets in Mazo's photo, and turn them around backwards though, and you'll have an explosively-expanding hollowpoint, I bet, even at moderate pistol velocities.

Below are my most recent, swaged, heeled, Hollowpoint, Semi-HB bullets from .454" round ball.  The same die set makes a nice 177 grain bullet from a .490" ball, the only difference being a longer drive band.  These expand moderately at high pistol velocities, and explosively at carbine velocities.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)