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Author Topic: Cylinder pressures.  (Read 2644 times)

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Offline necessaryevil

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 09:59:20 AM »
I find my rapidly dwindling supply of T7 when fired through my toys is much easier to clean than Santa Barbara BP.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2018, 10:33:20 AM »
Hi Racing, I don't think dentist x-rays will penetrate the cylinder. You could try sonic imaging if serious.

IMO this concern for steel integrity is silly if you use moderate loadings. If you are shooting an original, go light.

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Richard
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Offline Len

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2018, 12:08:46 PM »
Steel, unlike aluminum, does not lose strength over time, if prevented from rusting.

Offline Hawg

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2018, 01:19:07 PM »
Steel, unlike aluminum, does not lose strength over time, if prevented from rusting.

We're not talking about modern steel. We're talking about cast steel which may or may not have impurities or inclusions in it.
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Offline prof marvel

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2018, 06:23:46 PM »
Steel, unlike aluminum, does not lose strength over time, if prevented from rusting.

We're not talking about modern steel. We're talking about cast steel which may or may not have impurities or inclusions in it.

The cast Swedish Steel procured for cylinders was provided as round bar stock straight from the Swedish Rolling Mills
after Swedish Q/A and destructive testing. I actually have more faith in that stuff than some of the soft Italian stuff.
Remember how Bruce blew up his ASM Walker ( Dragoon?) cylinder?

yhs
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 06:45:00 PM »
Steel, unlike aluminum, does not lose strength over time, if prevented from rusting.

We're not talking about modern steel. We're talking about cast steel which may or may not have impurities or inclusions in it.

The cast Swedish Steel procured for cylinders was provided as round bar stock straight from the Swedish Rolling Mills
after Swedish Q/A and destructive testing. I actually have more faith in that stuff than some of the soft Italian stuff.
Remember how Bruce blew up his ASM Walker ( Dragoon?) cylinder?

yhs
prof marvel

I'm thinking he figured out he used smokeless in that.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline prof marvel

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 07:39:53 PM »
I don't know what all T7 has in it but I do know it's sugar based and has no charcoal or sulphur. The only difference between Pyrodex and real black is they swapped the potassium nitrate for potassium perchlorate

Pyrodex has "reduced" the sulfur content, by adding Potassium Perchlorate.

Triple 7 eliminated sulfur by adding Potassium Perchlorate , Sodium Benzoate, Dicyaniamide ( yes a form of cyanide)
and Dextrin, often confused as a sugar - I thought so too!

 Dextrin:a soluble gummy substance obtained by hydrolysis of starch, used as a thickening agent and in adhesives

We see the details from here
https://www.hodgdon.com/resources/safety-data-sheets/

The Hogdon MSDS sheets, dated June 2017:


Pyrodex:
---------------------------------------------
Charcoal         8%
Sulfur          8%
Potassium Nitrate       30%
Potassium Perchlorate   30%
graphite <  1%

Toxic fumes, such as sulfur dioxide are emitted while burning.

Pyrodex® has its own oxygen supply; flame smothering techniques are ineffective.  Water may be used on unburnt Pyrodex® to retard further spread of fire.

* Fires involving Pyrodex® should not be fought unless extinguishing media can be applied from a well protected and distant location from the point of fire.  Self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) and protective clothing must be worn.

=================
777:
---------------------------------------------
Charcoal          10%
Sodium Benzoate       10%
Potassium Nitrate       30%
Potassium Perchlorate    30%
Dicyaniamide       10%
Dextrin          10%

Toxic fumes, such as sulfur dioxide are emitted while burning.

Triple Seven® has its own oxygen supply; flame smothering techniques are ineffective.  Water may be used on unburnt Triple Seven® to retard further spread of fire.

Advice and PPE for Firefighters: * Fires involving Triple Seven® should not be fought unless extinguishing media can be applied from a well protected and distant location from the point of fire.  Self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) and protective clothing must be worn.  Wash all clothes prior to reuse.


Pyrodex has "low sulpher", and T7 has "no sulpher".  The main replacement is "Potassium Perchlorate"
these are still technically not smokeless as they do not contain nitrocellulose.

FYI TrailBoss contains > 70% nitrocellulose, Clays contains > 85% nitrocellulose.

and BlackMZ contains
--------------------------------------------------------
potassium nitrate        40-60%
potassium perchlorate     20-40%
Carbon black        <1%


Very early experiments on T7 were performed by "Dutch Bill" aka "The Mad Monk" aka Bill Knight .
In his samples, he found little or no signs of Potassium Perchlorate and little or no corrosion of brass.
However current users show rass cartridges com[pletely eaten by T7, and the MSDS clearly shows
T7 has both perchlorates *and* a variation of cyanide ....

hope this helps
prof marvel
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Offline rodwha

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2018, 07:27:43 PM »
Steel, unlike aluminum, does not lose strength over time, if prevented from rusting.

We're not talking about modern steel. We're talking about cast steel which may or may not have impurities or inclusions in it.

The cast Swedish Steel procured for cylinders was provided as round bar stock straight from the Swedish Rolling Mills
after Swedish Q/A and destructive testing. I actually have more faith in that stuff than some of the soft Italian stuff.
Remember how Bruce blew up his ASM Walker ( Dragoon?) cylinder?

yhs
prof marvel

I'm thinking he figured out he used smokeless in that.

Are you certain? It’s been years now but back then, after more pondering, he concluded that he did not charge it with 26 grns of Pyrodex P but had double charged it due to the deep Walker chambers for 52 grns of powder. Couple that with a very heavy for length (285 grns) bullet I designed for my ROA knowing it could handle higher pressures and so gave it longer driving bands since it would consume quite a bit of powder capacity with the intentions of it increasing the velocity.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png

We were both dumbfounded at first that 26 grns would have done that. Even with 52 grns it didn’t seem it would be destructive like that and so pondered if it was possibly due to an ASM quality issue or even not well cared for by a previous owner. A hot load, heavy projectile, and long bearing surfaces may have been all it would take possibly.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Cylinder pressures.
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2018, 08:10:24 PM »
No I'm not certain. You'll have to ask him to be certain. I'm just going from memory which may or may not be accurate.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.